Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,465
# 21
05-14-2013, 05:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by virusdancer View Post
They should leave GDF alone (as it is on Holo) and simply make sure that LDE only applies at 50% or less.
That seems to be not only the simplest solution given the time remaining before LoR launches, but also the one that thematically fits with what the devs attempted to do with the Tribble GDF changes.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 677
# 22
05-14-2013, 06:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by spacefortress View Post
Vang logic

If I were captain of starship, I wouldn't ram my ship at enemy unless my hull was buckling and I was out of options. Something I think every star trek captain would agree. I guess my logic is Cryptic's logic!

Does that mean you need to unnecessarily limit an ability from being used? Not really.

To be completely honest, with your background and my experience with you personally I'd say it would be expected that you, of all people would understand this stupid change. They CAN fiddle around with Tactical's GDF yet they care for sh*t about Engineers.

Is that also part of your logic? Oh wait you were a selfish PvP tank aimed at solo play, I forgot

Last edited by darkfader1988; 05-14-2013 at 06:29 AM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,400
# 23
05-14-2013, 07:40 AM
Wow, overnight threadsplosion!!

Set Phasers to Fabulous!!

(Yes, even the disagreers!)


Quote:
Originally Posted by dontdrunkimshoot View Post
first of all, this tac hate is hilarious, seriously. you poor, poor scis
Yeah it's mind boggling that most players really don't understand how strong Sci captains are. (Which is great, btw, they should be powerful!)


Quote:
Originally Posted by dontdrunkimshoot View Post
i cant make much sense of that, but at the very least ussultimatum and myself came out totally against the change, due to its cruiser nerfing and exploit ability.
Yeah, exactly.

Basically, spacefortress (vang) is against anything that could ever actually hurt and/or kill his cruiser.

If it were up to him, all offense powers, debuffs etc., would basically just bounce of his fantasy cruiser that is just totally invincible. This is why I don't actually respond directly to his posts.



Quote:
Originally Posted by virusdancer View Post
Tac hate is pretty easy, whether somebody is a Sci or an Eng.
Mostly because a lot of players are just clueless about Sci.

As for Eng, I've been in pretty much every thread advocating for Engineer improvements.

Player =/= In Game Character




Quote:
Originally Posted by khayuung View Post
I'm going to be the tac captain that Draws Fire.

I like the new GDF, and the new trait that gives it more survivability.

Because it now functions only below 50%, I'd toss it on my spambar together with Fleet Support. That way, the moment I drop below 50% the skill fires off giving a huge damage bonus and I get a survivability buff which at that point I really damn need one!!

Its however overbalanced by getting subnuc'd off. That is the real issue here.

Subnuc needs to not affect all Captain skill buffs. So it can take out APO, but affects nothing that takes longer than a minute to recharge.

*battle cloaks*
SNB, and simply dying to damage - Last Ditch Effort trait will not save you from proper coordinated strikes from an opposing team.


And against some premade teams, you'll be lucky to even get that GDF off from spamming your spacebar.

Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,764
# 24
05-14-2013, 07:51 AM
Exactly. If the subnuc issue is fixed, then GDF just gets countered by teamwork. However, that one ability has caused the opposing team to act in a certain way to counter it.

That sounds like working as intended to me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lt. Comm. Pion
What should I wish upon the endless universe;
To be able to smile and forgive everything;
That's right, if we light up the dream in our hearts without averting our eyes;
We should be able to walk whatever tomorrow comes...

I am V. Adm. Kha Yuung, and I approve of this message.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 11,568
# 25
05-14-2013, 08:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ussultimatum View Post
Mostly because a lot of players are just clueless about Sci.

As for Eng, I've been in pretty much every thread advocating for Engineer improvements.

Player =/= In Game Character
My thoughts on Sci are still in Praxi's sig I believe...the cottonball comment I made during the Kumari discussions.

My dislike for many Tac players is the sense of entitlement they show. It doesn't mean that every Tac player is like that, but there are more than enough of them to have developed that dislike.

As for Eng players, I think there are more of them that dislike me than Tac and Sci combined. The majority of them I see simply suffer Tac envy and want to be the very thing they spend so much time complaining about. Irks me to pieces - that one does.

When you get certain Tac players and certain Eng players in a thread - well, I tend to smoke more.

I don't expect everybody to agree with me, I don't know everything and folks sure as Hell should agree with me on everything. I can be wrong, have seen that, and in moving on and learning from that I've been able to strengthen other arguments or even help them argue their points.

But I see a vast difference between those folks that I disagree with that are looking for overall game balance (where we want the same thing, but think we can get there differently) and those folks that don't give a rat's caboose about the game overall as long as they can keep what they've got. Those folks...bother me. And a lot of those folks - are Tacs. So it's easy to dislike them.

Perhaps it's because I play both KDF and Fed. I'll actually end up arguing against and for both. Perhaps it's because I play Tac, Sci, and Eng...both on KDF and Fed...that I actually end up arguing with and against the various Careers. Perhaps it's because I fly Escorts, BoPs, Cruisers, Battle Cruisers, Science Vessels, Carriers, etc, etc, etc...that...

Lots of folks like one thing - they play one thing - they view everything from that one thing - want that one thing to be as good as possible - they have their one thing.

I don't have one thing. Well, I do...Star Trek Online. I want that to be as good as possible. With that, it means I'm going to have suggestions that both nerf and buff various things in the game.

So yeah, here I am with an admitted dislike of many Tac players out there...fighting to keep GDF like it is on Holo (with the 50% change to LDE). Because my dislike of them is not more important than what I see as trying to balance and have a better STO.

Perhaps if I weren't so dismissive of many of the Eng folks and Cruiser folks, then I'd dislike them more than I do the Tac and Escort folks. But I am pretty dismissive of them. It's hard not to be dismissive of them. Look at how many are asking for the same things they're complaining about? That's just nonsense, imho - so yeah - I just kind of ignore them. I mean, seriously...how can somebody say that X, Y, & Z are broken - so to fix X, Y, & Z...give it to more people? Nonsense...

I think the majority of the dislike for Tacs arose during the discussions about Tac abilities buffing Sci abilities. That oozed entitlement and drove me up the wall. It was so simple and straightforward what was being asked...but nope, couldn't have it.

Imagine:

Remove Tac ability to buff Sci abilities.
Increase damage from Sci abilities.
Who's going to do more damage?
The Tac would.
What?
Cause the Tac and Sci would be doing the same damage with the Sci abilities, would the Tac would still be doing more damage with the weapons.

It wasn't about the Sci doing more damage than the Tac. The Tac would still do more damage than the Sci. It was about the Sci being more viable in PvE settings, where the abilities that have their most use in PvP are pretty near useless in PvE.

But hey, I wouldn't be me if I wasn't also ticking off the Sci folks in those same discussions where I was championing that for them but also pointing out issues with Sci stuff.

I'm not trying to win any popularity contests. Balance can only be achieved through give and take. Some folks out there don't want to give anything to anybody and they don't want anything taken away. I tend to find most of them to be Tac players.

The Tribble GDF changes though...it's the wrong take, imho. It doesn't fit either thematically or mechanically. I didn't always think that way. My initial thing was the common Going Down Fighting that lots of folks go with...but I thought about it more, and yeah - it's easy to see a Go Down Fighting mindset from the outset...not requiring that somebody's already going down...but they plan to keep fighting even as they're going down.
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Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,471
# 26
05-14-2013, 08:54 AM
I honestly dont want escorts- tacticals nerfed.

I would not mind other ship classes and careers getting buffed however.


As long as my tactical and escort is good in PVe, I dont mind if other classes get new bonuses.
Let us wear Swimsuits on Foundry maps or bridges please! I would pay zen for that.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 127
# 27
05-14-2013, 09:46 AM
Sorry but as long as you have Attack Pattern: Alpha you don't get to complain about any of your other skills.
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 585
# 28
05-14-2013, 09:47 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tpalelena View Post
I honestly dont want escorts- tacticals nerfed.

I would not mind other ship classes and careers getting buffed however.


As long as my tactical and escort is good in PVe, I dont mind if other classes get new bonuses.
Then let me put it like this for you: The change to GDF might slow your clears of the various PvE actions in the game, but otherwise in no way, shape, or form threatens Tactical Captain's supremacy in clearing Space PvE content.

RE: Tacs and Sci Powers

Tac's boosting Sci damage is a good thing. A very good thing, particularly because of how Tac's use their BOff powers vs how Sci's use them. Tac's use their powers to draw out heals. They're masters of it, and once a target is out of heals, it's just a matter of time before death occurs. A Sci cappy uses his BOff powers to draw out but more often clears (which also happen to be heals 90% of the time) with the intention of making them unavailable post-SNB, leaving a target in an extremely vulnerable state.

Limiting Tacs to boosting only the weapons and weapon-related powers of Sci ships would put a massive dent in their ability to draw out heals in Sci ships and basically render the combination moot. Sci Captains struggling in PvE content has a lot less to do with their powers not doing enough damage 'cause they're boostable by Tactical Captains, and a lot more to do with encounter and mob design relative to the mechanisms of the game that are in play.

Oh yeah, don't forget all Sci cappys are getting a potential 30% boost in the damage output of exotic damage they do (Shield Drains, GW, TBR, FBP, EWP, and PSW being the main powers to benefit) via a new trait.
If you feel Keel'el's effect is well designed, please, for your own safety, be very careful around shallow pools of water.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 11,568
# 29
05-14-2013, 10:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by thegrimcorsair View Post
Oh yeah, don't forget all Sci cappys are getting a potential 30% boost in the damage output of exotic damage they do (Shield Drains, GW, TBR, FBP, EWP, and PSW being the main powers to benefit) via a new trait.
Heh, it was an old discussion.

But yeah, it will be interesting to see just what CoE will and will not affect. It would be nifty to get some clarification from Cryptic on that rather than the usual trial and error from the community which is often subject to stealth changes...
Willard the Rat, Reman, F.T'varo - Rave, J.Trill, Kar'Fi - Mysk, Gorn, Varanus
Maal, Klingon, Mogh - Vegar, Orion, Marauder - R'ebel, Romulan, Haakona
Kopor, Nausicaan, Guramba - Nivuh, Ferasan, B'rel - Venit, Lethean, M.Qin
Career Officer
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,121
# 30
05-14-2013, 10:11 AM
I don't know how much of this is tacs fighting to keep what they feel they are entitled to or not.
As someone who also plays all classes in many ship types GDF isn't doing much in a PvE environment for damage. In normal, if you lose shields you are terribly bad, so bad you aren't doing much damage to start with. In elite if those shields aren't up all the time, you are dead dead dead, the torpedoes are too strong to try and use GDF properly. What they've done is basically remove a captain ability from tacs, which is what I disagree with.
In PvP, with yo-yo healing, all it does it further assist tacs, so its an odd change.

I built my eng build around their abilities, the one I don't use often is Miracle Worker. Also Nadeon Inversion is underwhelming.

And other than the overpowered nature of subnuc in PvP, sci overall is a mess that needs help.
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