Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 39
# 111
05-15-2013, 05:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by srspells View Post

My whole fleet bought it and so did alot of my friends, and tbh do you actually have sales numbers to back your theory up as well?
-Spells
Well, if you had ever studied economics (or work in a sales driven business), you would know, that you do not have to top up packages (or offers in general), if they are selling like crazy.
But if your offer in the eye of the consumer is not worth the price/content, you either need to lower the price or to top up the offer, so you can increase your sales.

Again, if your offer is so fanstastic, that people buy it like crazy, you dont need to top up anything.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,271
# 112
05-15-2013, 05:47 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by roejspinodji View Post
Well, if you had ever studied economics (or work in a sales driven business), you would know, that you do not have to top up packages (or offers in general), if they are selling like crazy.
But if your offer in the eye of the consumer is not worth the price/content, you either need to lower the price or to top up the offer, so you can increase your sales.

Again, if your offer is so fanstastic, that people buy it like crazy, you dont need to top up anything.
Although, given that it doesn't really cost them anything else to add something to the pack, it is quite logical to try and sell even more packs, right? Your statement assumes that it actually costs something to add something to the pack.

In economics speak, if there is no marginal cost, might as well add it into the pack.
A Gensokyoan Mech-piloting Starship Admiral Rodent.

Take it easy!

Last edited by scurry5; 05-15-2013 at 05:50 AM.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 39
# 113
05-15-2013, 05:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by drowrulesupreme View Post
If I may...
You wrote bug reports (of which the Devs will receive 1000's every day) and didn't get a reply. You expect a personal, written response for every bug report? Seriously? I think you may have missed the fact that their response to bug reports is to try to fix the bug as a response. Which would you prefer? A reply saying "Thanks for your bug report, we're too busy replying to bug reports to do anything about it, but we do appreciate your efforts" or them FIXING the problem? I know which I prefer... Same goes for e-mails.

You wrote that you bought the LTS with "vastly any real benefits". I'm confused. Did you mean "NO real benefits", "HARDLY any real benefits" or "VAST numbers of real benefits"? I'm going to go out on a limb here and assume the first one. So, a free EXCLUSIVE ship is no real benefit? Exclusive forum titles and in game titles are no real benefit? Free EXCLUSIVE in game pets are no real benefit? Monthly ZEN stipend is no real benefit? Passive in game bonuses are no real benefit? Really? REALLY? WOW!
Sorry for my english, I mean indeed hardly any real benefits. The free ship is a B-quality ship which is obsolete and hardly anyone uses in pvp or stf. Game pets are real benefit? Exclusive forum titles and ingame titles are real benefit? Well, they are just for your vanity. No real benefit. The monthly ZEN stipend may count as real benefit, but as I had stated, I had purchased ZEN for around 200 Euro per month, so the 500 ZEN are actually not really making a difference. You get 750 ZEN Bonus when buying a 80 Euro ZEN pack anyway. So, yes, Lifetime package has hardly any real benefit for me. For you, it may has.

I bought ZEN and LT, because I thought the game and the dev's work would be worth it. Now I am smarter.
Survivor of Remus
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 536
# 114
05-15-2013, 05:51 AM
Although I agree that many of us perceive that the devs and upper management at Cryptic and PWE don't care about STO player complaints (and that IS something the devs and the rest of the Cryptic team need to work on), I don't think that's really translating into poor Legacy Pack sales.

Heck, I finally gave in and ordered a Legacy Pack despite the fact that I've been VERY vocal about some things I don't like about LOR based on my experience in the beta.

I can only hope that the things I don't like change over time or I figure out a way to live with them without those issues making the experience of playing STO terrible for me.

No matter how upset all of us passionate Trek fans get ... where else are we going to go to get our Trek role play fix?
In the immortal words of Captain Sisko: "It may not be what you believe, but that doesn't make it wrong."
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 39
# 115
05-15-2013, 06:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by scurry5 View Post
Although, given that it doesn't really cost them anything else to add something to the pack, it is quite logical to try and sell even more packs, right? Your statement assumes that it actually costs something to add something to the pack.

In economics speak, if there is no marginal cost, might as well add it into the pack.
I really love that. It is called "dangerous half-knowledge". Dangerous, because people think, that they know everything, but actually only understand a small portion of it. No, dont worry, I am not mad at you, there are so many people out there, who think they know economics, but actually dont really understand it.

In your case, lets make it simple:
1. I agree to you, of course they want to sell more packs.
2. They could therefore easily put another 200 keys into the pack, I guarantee the sales numbers would boost like crazy. Why don't they?
3. Well, simple as that, if they do, in the next months they have problem selling keys (because the market is flooded)

Same applies to Z-store or dili ships or any other items Cryptic wants to have cash. So, whatever they put in the packs now (to top up the value), they have difficulty to sell later.

Any virtual goods production costs are marginal (over the break-even overhead point), if you have covered your development costs (devs labour time, hardware depreciation, etc.). So whatever you now need to put into the LOR legacy pack, you cannot sell later for ZEN.

Again (for the 3rd time), if the sales numbers are satisfying, no need to top up the package.
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 308
# 116
05-15-2013, 06:21 AM
or it coulda been stuff they wanted in pack but wasnt finished til now, so they added it boosting confidence in player base that they care.

money is a point here but doesnt mean there sales are bad.

Proof or it didnt happen.
-Spells

|| Open Door Policy ||
| Dues Ex Mechina |
Fleet Leader

Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 39
# 117
05-15-2013, 06:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by srspells View Post
or it coulda been stuff they wanted in pack but wasnt finished til now, so they added it boosting confidence in player base that they care.

money is a point here but doesnt mean there sales are bad.

Proof or it didnt happen.
-Spells

"proof or it didn't happen"
I did not expect more than such ignorance, you know better than anyone else, that Cryptic themselves would not publish their sales numbers, nor admit, that they ever did anything wrong.

"boosting confidence in player base that they care". Well they dont. Proof me, that they do, or it doesn't happen.
Lieutenant
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 55
# 118
05-15-2013, 06:47 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by roejspinodji View Post
In your case, lets make it simple:
1. I agree to you, of course they want to sell more packs.
2. They could therefore easily put another 200 keys into the pack, I guarantee the sales numbers would boost like crazy. Why don't they?
3. Well, simple as that, if they do, in the next months they have problem selling keys (because the market is flooded)

Same applies to Z-store or dili ships or any other items Cryptic wants to have cash. So, whatever they put in the packs now (to top up the value), they have difficulty to sell later.
Giving 200 free keys to everyone who buys the legacy pack will flood the market and make them far cheaper on the exchange. That will certainly kill their ability to sell keys in the future in the C-store. Adding a ship that some people don't want and can't resell isn't going to hurt nearly as much. How many people would have actually bought all those Romulan ships from the C-Store individually? Not nearly as many as bought them all in the Legacy pack. And since you can't sell those ships, you're stuck with them. Meanwhile, people like me who aren't buying the Legacy pack still need to buy the ships from the C-store. It's not going to hurt them nearly as much as you think/hope. The only way they really lose money on this (even with the extra ships) are those very few people who would have bought most or all of the ships individually from the C-store.
__________________________________________________ _
I didn't ask to be President of the Balloon Enterprises! The Balloon Enterprises demanded it!

Last edited by nightmarechi1d; 05-15-2013 at 06:50 AM.
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 553
# 119
05-15-2013, 07:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by roejspinodji View Post
Sorry for my english, I mean indeed hardly any real benefits. The free ship is a B-quality ship which is obsolete and hardly anyone uses in pvp or stf. Game pets are real benefit? Exclusive forum titles and ingame titles are real benefit? Well, they are just for your vanity. No real benefit. The monthly ZEN stipend may count as real benefit, but as I had stated, I had purchased ZEN for around 200 Euro per month, so the 500 ZEN are actually not really making a difference. You get 750 ZEN Bonus when buying a 80 Euro ZEN pack anyway. So, yes, Lifetime package has hardly any real benefit for me. For you, it may has.

I bought ZEN and LT, because I thought the game and the dev's work would be worth it. Now I am smarter.
You also stated you were no longer parting with money so your stipend is the only Zen you have coming in = benefit
Passives for each 100 days in game (correct me if I'm wrong) = benefit
Exclusive vanity items no-one else can get without a LTS = benefit (maybe not to you, as it is clear you do not believe vanity items are worth it)
Sorry but saying they are not of any benefit is an opinion, YOUR opinion, and it is one I don't share.

When did you buy your LTS? Before or after the 1000 day ship was announced? If it was before then you got something you did not expect to get for your money. If it was after, it is your own fault if you don't like it because you should have researched better the contents and "benefits" of the LTS.

I do not have a LTS. I just started subbing last month after joining the game at F2P launch. I, however, have read what the LTS contains, and, if I had a wad of cash with no other purpose sitting in my bank account, would buy it and stop subbing. I bought the Starter Pack for LoR because I read what was on offer in both packs and felt the Legacy Pack (whilst great) offered a little too much that I would likely never play with; ergo, I bought the pack that suited my likely playstyle.
I see the Legacy Pack additions and think that anyone who bought one is a lucky duck for getting even more stuff for their money. Some people who had thought to buy 4 or 5 ships when LoR goes live may look at the Legacy Pack and think it is a better investment since it now has even more ships on offer.

Also, since you initially said you didn't care for people going against your opinion, since you knew you were right... why are you so quick to jump up in defense of your position when it does come under fire? Someone secure in their own correctness rarely needs to defend so vehemently.
Nevermind, don't answer... I have a pretty good idea why...
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,271
# 120
05-15-2013, 08:03 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by roejspinodji View Post
I really love that. It is called "dangerous half-knowledge". Dangerous, because people think, that they know everything, but actually only understand a small portion of it. No, dont worry, I am not mad at you, there are so many people out there, who think they know economics, but actually dont really understand it.

In your case, lets make it simple:
1. I agree to you, of course they want to sell more packs.
2. They could therefore easily put another 200 keys into the pack, I guarantee the sales numbers would boost like crazy. Why don't they?
3. Well, simple as that, if they do, in the next months they have problem selling keys (because the market is flooded)

Same applies to Z-store or dili ships or any other items Cryptic wants to have cash. So, whatever they put in the packs now (to top up the value), they have difficulty to sell later.

Any virtual goods production costs are marginal (over the break-even overhead point), if you have covered your development costs (devs labour time, hardware depreciation, etc.). So whatever you now need to put into the LOR legacy pack, you cannot sell later for ZEN.

Again (for the 3rd time), if the sales numbers are satisfying, no need to top up the package.
Hmm, while yes, I should have included the lost profit of future sales in the marginal cost, I think that what Cryptic is assuming is that the economic cost (I forgot this fundamental) due to lost sales is outweighed by the revenue gained by increased Legacy pack sales. In other words, people who would have bought some ships and stopped there, but now wish to spend a bit more to get the entire package. Therefore, it would make economic sense to top up the package, so that some people who may not have been interested in the new ship, but had been considering buying the entire package, would be tipped over into purchasing.

Ah, I'm thinking about it this way: since they add something to the pack, MC increases. However, perceived marginal benefit, and thus demand, increases, given that there is more in the pack (assume the pack is a single good). So, Cryptic assumes that increase in quantity demanded outweighs reduced profit-per-unit, I guess. Given this assumption, topping up would make economic sense, assuming profit maximisation.

Besides, if we're using pure economic theory, there is no 'satisfactory' level of profit anyway. It's all about getting the maximum.
A good argument on this topic would be good to help me out in my studying for my economics degree, so fire away!
A Gensokyoan Mech-piloting Starship Admiral Rodent.

Take it easy!

Last edited by scurry5; 05-15-2013 at 08:12 AM.
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