Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 975
# 101
05-17-2013, 10:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sopwithsnipe View Post
I simply assumed the entire indoctrination was a holodeck induced delusion, with the first "simulation" done deliberately to convince the character that the rest was real and not happening on the holodeck. Cuz I refuse to believe that Hakeev is stupid enough to let a prisoner that hasn't been completely indoctrinated wander around his ship by him/herself between indoctrination sessions.

Everything from shooting your Boff to the borg conversion was a holodeck delusion with the undercover agent hacking the holodeck database to communicate with you. The only "real" stuff happened after you woke up in the medbay after the brainwashing was broken.
That's the genius of "Mind Games". It can play out at so many levels. There is no clear signals as to what is real, a Holodeck or just in the character's own mind. It's a question that has no clear answer. The question has to be answer by the player.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,875
# 102
05-17-2013, 10:18 AM
Considering that for pretty much the entire game you are destroying ships and killing people, since rarely are you given non-lethal alternatives, there's even a mission where an Undine tricks you into murdering a group of peaceful medical researchers. Under those circumstances it's pretty ironic to be getting up in arms about this small group of tasks that are fairly innocuous in comparison to what the game regularly requires you to do. At least in this mission you are given an excuse for your murderous behavior in that you are under some kind of mind control and have no choice.
This really calls to a larger issue in the game, where unlike in Star Trek you are almost never given the option to resolve matters peacefully.
The mission does serve one important goal, it exemplifies why the Tal'Shiar are an organization that you should not want any part of.
If something is not broken, don't fix it, if it is broken, don't leave it.
Oh Hell NO to ARC........One Ring to Rule Them all........
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 697
# 103
05-17-2013, 10:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by maxvitor View Post
Considering that for pretty much the entire game you are destroying ships and killing people, since rarely are you given non-lethal alternatives, there's even a mission where an Undine tricks you into murdering a group of peaceful medical researchers. Under those circumstances it's pretty ironic to be getting up in arms about this small group of tasks that are fairly innocuous in comparison to what the game regularly requires you to do. At least in this mission you are given an excuse for your murderous behavior in that you are under some kind of mind control and have no choice.
This really calls to a larger issue in the game, where unlike in Star Trek you are almost never given the option to resolve matters peacefully.
The mission does serve one important goal, it exemplifies why the Tal'Shiar are an organization that you should not want any part of.
in the next mission you release a Thaleron bomb on a planet killing ALL organic life....
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,875
# 104
05-17-2013, 10:34 AM
Actually that's an earlier mission and you aren't the one pulling the trigger. The whole game is essentially geared to seeking new life, new civilizations, boldly going where no-one has gone before, then blowing the crap out of whatever is found there.
If something is not broken, don't fix it, if it is broken, don't leave it.
Oh Hell NO to ARC........One Ring to Rule Them all........
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,251
# 105
05-17-2013, 11:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jymoward View Post
This is my first major issue with LoR.

There are no real player choices in Mindgame - except to proceed or not.

I stopped in the middle. I won't play this one. There are some things I won't do even in a game where I'm shooting everything in sight.

You have to make this in some way resistible - offer an alternative action, even if hidden.

If this does not change when it comes to Holodeck, I'll be skipping this mission every time.

No reward is worth compromising integrity, even in a game.
The point of the mission is to make your Character feel like they were powerless to control themselves and Mentally Violated by your captors which the mission does quite nicely.

How else would you build up animosity between your Character and the Evil Tal Shiar if the Tal Shiar's best forms of torcher or mind control can be so easily overcome?

Sometimes Characters need to be broken down before they can rise up.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,973
# 106
05-17-2013, 11:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by maxvitor View Post
Actually that's an earlier mission and you aren't the one pulling the trigger. The whole game is essentially geared to seeking new life, new civilizations, boldly going where no-one has gone before, then blowing the crap out of whatever is found there.
That's why all my ships carry Genesis torpedoes. That way I'm not killing my enemies, I'm turning them into friendly microscopic life-forms.
Career Officer
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 712
# 107
05-17-2013, 11:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by errab View Post
The point of the mission is to make your Character feel like they were powerless to control themselves and Mentally Violated by your captors which the mission does quite nicely.

How else would you build up animosity between your Character and the Evil Tal Shiar if the Tal Shiar's best forms of torcher or mind control can be so easily overcome?

Sometimes Characters need to be broken down before they can rise up.
I would rather be like Picard "There are Three Lights"
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 455
# 108
05-17-2013, 12:02 PM
Honestly, I don't think their game engine can handle anything other than straight linear quests. Everyone has to follow the puppetmaster.
Leave nerfing to the professionals.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,973
# 109
05-17-2013, 12:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by otisnoble View Post
I would rather be like Picard "There are Three Lights"
Isn't that the one where he admitted to troi was going to crack under torture if the cardie official hadn't interrupted his interrogation and told him he was being released and returned to the enterprise?
Rihannsu
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 700
# 110
05-17-2013, 12:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by errab View Post

Sometimes Characters need to be broken down before they can rise up.
No! They Dont.
Its extremely naive to think that people arent capable of recognizing evil and require reprogramming to understand at least the necessity of combating that that evil. The human animal is no more an amazing creature than any other animal on this planet, but we are animals first and eternally. We seek out threats to our security and we eliminate them as quickly ( and usually as viciously ) as we can. We dont need programming. We've got fifty thousand years of species specific programming that makes us singularly the most self destructive species on the face of the earth. We watch for threats like Hakeev instinctually.. We purposely find the worst in everything because of our species driven instinct and wipe it out..
We dont need to be broken down.. We need to get out of the trees we were spawned in.
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