Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 697
# 51
05-16-2013, 10:55 AM
Have they removed Head Tovan....

Thats what horrified me. That even when I was having a story about ME, Tovan's narcisistic personality disorder couldnt handle not have a line for two minutes and popped into my head.

Most other missions feel like im an extra in the Tovan show
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,627
# 52
05-16-2013, 11:17 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by colonelchenchuan View Post
Have they removed Head Tovan....

Thats what horrified me. That even when I was having a story about ME, Tovan's narcisistic personality disorder couldnt handle not have a line for two minutes and popped into my head.

Most other missions feel like im an extra in the Tovan show
I agree, it would have been 100times better to have the character we play instead of Tovan. Having our free us talking to our brainwashed us would have been cool. Using our character in conversation, like with any BOFF.
Sort of schyzophrenic discussion.
Commander
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 354
# 53
05-16-2013, 12:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hyouki View Post
...See my post in http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/sh....php?p=9419121 for the grim story. Which I should probably mention is highly spoilerific for Divide et Impera...
You do remember that civilians, non-combatants, families and children live alongside Starfleet personnel on larger cruisers, right? Every time you blow away one of those nameless Galaxy-class starships, that's like a hundred dead children, ballpark estimate.

Atrocities and war crimes aren't some exception practiced only by the black hats in the Trek universe, it's a freaking norm.
Somebody getting uppity about canon? No problem! Just take a deep breath, and repeat after me:

Spock's Brain.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 243
# 54
05-16-2013, 12:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by theodrim View Post
You do remember that civilians, non-combatants, families and children live alongside Starfleet personnel on larger cruisers, right? Every time you blow away one of those nameless Galaxy-class starships, that's like a hundred dead children, ballpark estimate.

Atrocities and war crimes aren't some exception practiced only by the black hats in the Trek universe, it's a freaking norm.
Oh aye, there's a fair few times where I don't agree with what the mission is making me do, and so I wait for the "enemies" to attack me first. So I can (reluctantly?) blow the hell out of them in self-defense.

But it's one thing to destroy a faceless ship, and quite another to pummel a doctor while they watch helplessly while my "good guys" butcher the rest of their group.

Ironically, it feels a little good to feel bad about these kind of things, because it means I still have SOME empathy left, even for electronic illusions dancing on my screen.

(Oh, and this is also why I don't play Klingons...)

Last edited by hyouki; 05-16-2013 at 01:00 PM.
Career Officer
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 43
# 55
05-16-2013, 01:29 PM
If you are effected by this mission on a game because of something over 40 years ago, then you must have been part of some very illegal and brutal war crime and you should be held accountable for your actions (even if those actions were that you did not inform your superiors).

No war criminal should be allowed to get away with their actions.



NOW - if the above is completely false and it was nothing along those lines.... you need stop moaning about a mission on a game.

If you have post traumatic stress then you should not be playing any type of war game.

For the record... the cuter the animal the better it tastes.... just saying

PEACE
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 315
# 56
05-16-2013, 01:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by colonelchenchuan View Post
Have they removed Head Tovan....

Thats what horrified me. That even when I was having a story about ME, Tovan's narcisistic personality disorder couldnt handle not have a line for two minutes and popped into my head.

Most other missions feel like im an extra in the Tovan show
Yeah, I'm in agreement with this one. This is supposed to be my conscience...so why is it Tovan? Seriously, make it our own mind, not Tovan's. This is supposed to be MY story. I'M the captain of this show. Not Tovan.
Rihannsu
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 700
# 57
05-16-2013, 01:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by twelveparsecs View Post
If you are effected by this mission on a game because of something over 40 years ago, then you must have been part of some very illegal and brutal war crime and you should be held accountable for your actions (even if those actions were that you did not inform your superiors).



PEACE
I dont wish to insult you, but you seem very naive. This is not the place to discuss this train of thought, but there are a great many documentaries about vietnam, Afghanistan, and mogadishu that can give the in-experienced a general concept..
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 171
# 58
05-16-2013, 01:56 PM
Ah, Divide Et Impera.

There's a profound difference between Divide Et Impera and Mind Games that I think explains why I feel the need for a trigger warning in the case of one but not the other.

Divide Et Impera is the worst mission I've ever played in an MMO. It's badly written, badly executed, and absolutely no fun. The player sees the betrayal coming a mile away and their character is played as a fool. It's just... awful. And, while it definitely calls up bad feelings (frustration, anger, desire to uninstall the game and do anything else at all), those bad feelings are neither the intention of the design nor based on trauma.

Mind Games, on the other hand, is brilliant. It might be the BEST episode in the game, on the absolute opposite end of the quality scale from Divide Et Impera. Outside Secret World and its amazing writing and voice acting, it's the only time I've ever been deeply affected by an MMO mission's story. It's executed brilliantly, placing the player in their character's head through using the interface to strip agency from the player at the same time the events in game strip it from the character.

And, due to its brilliance, it has an ability, unparalleled in any other mission in the game - perhaps in the genre - to call back traumatic feelings from terrible experiences. It brings back the OPs feelings from Vietnam, it feels to me like assault. It's an experience, and a brilliantly executed one, but for those who've had experiences that play on the same emotions outside the world of gaming, it is, currently, a deeply unwelcome surprise.

It should not be removed from the game. It should NEVER be removed from the game. But it needs to have a near-zero chance of sneaking up on a player it can hit that hard.

Divide et Impera, on the other hand, can just go.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,731
# 59
05-16-2013, 02:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by twelveparsecs View Post
If you are effected by this mission on a game because of something over 40 years ago, then you must have been part of some very illegal and brutal war crime and you should be held accountable for your actions (even if those actions were that you did not inform your superiors).
You, sir or madam, are an ill-informed jackwad. I sincerely hope that you are able to continue in your delusion, and are never yourself affected by such levels of Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder (the nightmares are no fun at all, for one).

My roommate's HMMWV was blown up in Iraq. He was one of three survivors. To this day, he can't sleep without some heavy medications, because he simply can't calm down enough. Every shadow could contain an assassin; every bump in the road could have been an IED. War films are out of the question, and July 4th is his least favorite day of the year because of all the flashbacks.

And he was a cook. His worst "war crime" involved delivering MREs because there was no power to the kitchen. I can't even imagine what the poor ground infantry are going through. And the strains from 'Nam were in some ways worse; at least nobody waited at the airfield for my roommate's platoon, standing by to spit on them and call them names.

Please, if you are that completely ignorant on a given topic, just don't speak. Let us continue to assume you're not so poorly educated.
-------------------------------------------
I'm old enough not to care too much about what you think of me --
But I'm young enough to remember the future, the way things ought to be...

- Rush, "Cut To the Chase", Counterparts
Career Officer
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 482
# 60
05-16-2013, 02:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by twelveparsecs View Post
If you are effected by this mission on a game because of something over 40 years ago, then you must have been part of some very illegal and brutal war crime and you should be held accountable for your actions (even if those actions were that you did not inform your superiors).PEACE
I'm going to be banned for this, but sometimes you just need to take your punishment.

You need to shut the [censored] up and take your kool-aid drinking, ignorant, self-absorbed self and go away. You have NO idea what you're talking about, and obviously have no idea what PTSD can do to a person, nor the idea of what war actually entails.

Your assumption that the poster did the stuff you accused him of is ignorant in the extreme. How do you know he didn't see the aftermath of what the enemy did, the horror of it, and decide in this scenario that he didn't want to be the person committing those atrocities. Do I know what happened, no. Nor do I want to know, but your assumption and calling him a war criminal, someone who was just doing his job, without knowing the facts, makes you into a complete and utter [censored].

PTSD is a sickness, one that can never be truly cured, just contained and made better. All kinds of things can create it in war, and all kinds of things can trigger it. Who are you in your self-righteous egotistical manner to judge one of the worlds finest, one who fought for his country, without knowing any of the FACTS.

Last edited by ladymyajha; 05-16-2013 at 02:21 PM.
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