Republic Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 606
# 131
05-18-2013, 04:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cha0s1428 View Post
Face it drunk. Its these people arguing from the pve side drinking their rp koolaid who just keep constantly validating the devs decision on this stuff, and its why the turn rate won't change. Pvp will always be a mess because the vast majority are conent with running underpferfoming builds, who think turning like a brick is "canon" so its fine.

Its why the game is in its current state pvp wise.

"Example X" is causing problems, so are Y and Z.
Most people don't pvp because of problems X,Y and Z.
Dev don't bother working on pvp because hardly anyone does anymore.
Its a never ending cycle and pvers aren't helping, and no matter how much people like us try to have a rational reasoning behind what we say, they don't listen.

I mean honestly, the vast majority of the arguments against us right now are "its not an escort, and shouldn't turn like a defiant. And no matter how many times it is said that +2 or 3 to base = 7.5 or 8.5 NOT 17, the same argument comes back "if you want to turn like an escort, fly an escort"

Its honestly mind boggling.
PvP is the way it is because it's a PvE game with PvP tacked on. Why the hell do you bother?
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Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 11,570
# 132
05-18-2013, 06:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by commanderkassy View Post
PvP is the way it is because it's a PvE game with PvP tacked on. Why the hell do you bother?
Well, imho, it's not so much that it's a PvE game with PvP tacked on as it is an extremely casual PvE game. I actually feel a pain in my gut reading that Elachi thread and some of the others. You stop for a moment, look around - look at all the things that have been added and keep on being added...it's because it's an extremely casual PvE game where the bread and butter revenue is coming from folks in that Elachi thread and others like it.

It does leave one to wonder why one would bother.

No doubt no game is going to be a perfect fit for everybody - no game is going to be a good fit for everybody...but it's been obvious which path STO's going down. Maybe some folks don't want to see it, maybe there's some denial, maybe there's some delusion...

I'm operating on equal parts denial and delusion myself...meh.
Willard the Rat, Reman, F.T'varo - Rave, J.Trill, Kar'Fi - Mysk, Gorn, Varanus
Maal, Klingon, Mogh - Vegar, Orion, Marauder - R'ebel, Romulan, Haakona
Kopor, Nausicaan, Guramba - Nivuh, Ferasan, B'rel - Venit, Lethean, M.Qin
Commander
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 405
# 133
05-18-2013, 07:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by commanderkassy View Post
PvP is the way it is because it's a PvE game with PvP tacked on. Why the hell do you bother?
Why do I bother arguing or why do I bother PvPing?

Well, first one, I don't know. Hopeless optimism?

Second point is that I love to PvP. I only play games for the PvP at endgame. I love Star Trek, and I love flying my Star Trek ships. I would love to fly my Star Trek ships that I love in the kind of game play that I love.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 11,570
# 134
05-18-2013, 07:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cha0s1428 View Post
I would love to fly my Star Trek ships that I love in the kind of game play that I love.
I remember when STO was in beta and first came out (and thinking the same thing for some time after that)...that it would have been nifty to have had some sort of EVE(back when there were 5-8k people on the shard)/STO fusion.

I realized a few things with that:

1) Folks that like EVE may not like the STO aspect, so it would cut down on the amount of revenue the game would generate.
2) Folks that like STO may not like the EVE aspect, so it would cut down on the amount of revenue the game would generate.
3) Like anybody else that thinks they like something in theory, I may not have liked the actual implementation of it.

Still though, when I'm in a particular mood...I'll get all glassy eyed and picture that.

We have to accept that STO is the game that it is. That the revenue comes from Cryptic supporting the game in that manner.

I've PvP'd...er...3 times in the past month. One was just a duel where I wanted to see something. Sure, sure - the Crystalline Event and all the Tribble stuff has definitely consumed the majority of my time in that time...

...but I can't help but feel that my STO playing is going to get more and more like how the girlfriend plays Farmerama. Might do the random DOFFing, check for events, but otherwise - I may end up watching more videos of funny cats on YouTube.
Willard the Rat, Reman, F.T'varo - Rave, J.Trill, Kar'Fi - Mysk, Gorn, Varanus
Maal, Klingon, Mogh - Vegar, Orion, Marauder - R'ebel, Romulan, Haakona
Kopor, Nausicaan, Guramba - Nivuh, Ferasan, B'rel - Venit, Lethean, M.Qin
Captain
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 4,836
# 135
05-18-2013, 08:09 AM
The ship is fine in PvP. The ship is fine in PvE. There are quite a few guides that already exist on how to successfully fly slow turning ships in PvP. There's that boot camp thing. I highly recommend cha0s try the boot camp and get better at flying slow turning ships in PvP so that they can utilize the D'D better in PvP.

Instead of continuing down this extremely hilarious road calling for the ship to get a turn rate boost.

The ship got a major boost already. Asking for more (and particularly asking for all that added turn rate) is just insane.
Career Officer
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 38
# 136
05-18-2013, 08:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by markhawkman View Post
"target facing"?

Lemme guess you were actually trying to use DHC on a ship that is (for all practical purposes) a heavy cruiser? Umm.... no. I used beam arrays with a dragon setup and FaW.... worked great!
Ok I have to ask, seen it so many times, What do people mean by Dragon Setup?

The Turn Rate, seems fine to me my Rommiie lv41 Engineer 8.8 Turnrate with no RCS, when I cloak that goes to about 15.7 with Evasive Maneouvers that further increases to 21.2, I am also aware that DHC's are use less on it, so gone for a total of 6 Beam Arrays and 2 Torpedo (One of them is Bio something or other, the other is plasma)
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 11,570
# 137
05-18-2013, 08:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by snoggymack22 View Post
The ship is fine in PvP.
I can't agree with that point. The combination of the turn, BOFF layout, and consoles...well, it sets it apart.

X, X, X
X

X, X, X, X
X, X, X
X

3 Tac, 4 Eng, 3 Sci

5.5 Base Turn

It's got carrier turn without the two hangars.
It's got Fleet Heavy Consoles.
It's got that funky BOFF layout that looks like some sort of Tac variant Recluse. Again, a carrier thing...no pets.

You're looking at:

X, X, X
X
X

X, X, X, X
X, X, X

...or...

X, X, X
X

X, X, X, X
X

X, X, X

...or...

X, X, X
X

X, X, X, X
X, X, X
X


With the 3/4/3 consoles and the 5.5 (even if you've got it at 8-12 or so)...

...it's just uh, well - it actually makes the Fleet Galaxy look good.

X, X
X, X, X, X
X, X, X
X

X, X

2/5/3 consoles with 6 turn.

No, it's not doing what folks want the Fleet Galaxy to do...but hey, at least it can do what it can do well.

The D'deridex is a mutt...a mongrel. A jack-of-some-trades, master of none in the least...

At least when it had the Ambassador/Kamarag BOFFs to go with the 3/4/3 consoles...there was something that one could do with it.

It's definitely fine for PvE...but then again, what isn't?
Willard the Rat, Reman, F.T'varo - Rave, J.Trill, Kar'Fi - Mysk, Gorn, Varanus
Maal, Klingon, Mogh - Vegar, Orion, Marauder - R'ebel, Romulan, Haakona
Kopor, Nausicaan, Guramba - Nivuh, Ferasan, B'rel - Venit, Lethean, M.Qin
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 11,880
# 138
05-18-2013, 10:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by xenosisuk View Post
Ok I have to ask, seen it so many times, What do people mean by Dragon Setup?

The Turn Rate, seems fine to me my Rommiie lv41 Engineer 8.8 Turnrate with no RCS, when I cloak that goes to about 15.7 with Evasive Maneouvers that further increases to 21.2, I am also aware that DHC's are use less on it, so gone for a total of 6 Beam Arrays and 2 Torpedo (One of them is Bio something or other, the other is plasma)
Dragon Flagship is a build that utilizes a Heavy Cruiser's massive array of Eng Boff skills to keep power levels as high as possible.

My Ha'apax on tribble is currently setup with:
Veril; EptS1, EptW2, Aux2Batt2, Eject Warp plasma2
Selat; EptW1, EptS2, Aux2Batt2 (random boff)

It's fun being able to pump up your power levels with two skills at the same time.
HAIL HYDRA!

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
I can haz joystick!
MMOs aren't charities. Corporations are supposed to make a profit. It's what they do.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,077
# 139
05-18-2013, 11:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by virusdancer View Post
I can't agree with that point. The combination of the turn, BOFF layout, and consoles...well, it sets it apart.


No, it's not doing what folks want the Fleet Galaxy to do...but hey, at least it can do what it can do well.

The D'deridex is a mutt...a mongrel. A jack-of-some-trades, master of none in the least...

At least when it had the Ambassador/Kamarag BOFFs to go with the 3/4/3 consoles...there was something that one could do with it.

It's definitely fine for PvE...but then again, what isn't?
It will work great for me, all I need is Cmdr eng if I want to make myself tanky and not be a team healer, so makes sense to have the rest of the boff abilities moved over to sci and tac. It should work good as a alpha striker, decloak, PSW, tractor, DEM3 with marion, BO+HY. You can even aux2bat and keep spamming those abilities if you want.

Last edited by marc8219; 05-18-2013 at 11:44 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,937
# 140
05-18-2013, 11:50 AM
Bah, this thing will be an alpha strike beast for PvP (Similar to Gal-X) and perfectly workable for PvE dakka dakka I think is the new term.

Dem 3 + APB2 + BO1 + CRF1 + TS1 + PSW + EPtW 3 = Boom. I would hope.

PvE? It can use DHCs, it will be fine.

I still hate terrible turn rates personally though. Its not that I am incapable of flying them, it is that I do not enjoy flying them. And if our not enjoying it why bother.

Oh and VD I'm happy (sad?) that you realize what this entire game has been steering toward, the casual player, although it makes one wonder why they refuse to lessen the importance/impact of Tribal Knowledge on the game. Then again if everyone had the capability to make informed decisions they likely would spend far less cash in the game. Mk XII tactical consoles are the prime example of this if you ask me.
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