Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 800
# 11
05-16-2013, 07:26 PM
The fault is with the ship and it's base turn rate. You should have to cloak every single time you want to turn.

Sure if you load it with multiple RCS consoles and spec every possible point to anything that increases turn rate then it's playable. Yes the ship has a big "footprint", but the majority of that is open space, and it's not a carrier with hangar bays full of fighters to go shoot things for you. It's a warship, it's meant to kick ass straight on for the first run, circle around broadsiding and then come up from behind to shove the final torp/cannon up your ^%$.

Seriously thou people it's a cruiser, not a carrier and it shouldn't have the turn rate of a carrier. A min of 6 like the space whale with the 2 console mini set bonus adding +2 to that base rate.

Setting aside any "real world physics" which most have been flawed on forgetting about the open space between the hull sections, this is a game, it should be fun, not Mechanical Engineering 104 trying to spec it just right to get it to turn.

Cloak to get in close and shove it down their throat, cloak to go for the kidney shot and cloak to get in and shove the death blow up their tail pipes....not cloak to turn left at the next light, cloak to turn right in 500 feet. That's how ridiculous your "just cloak and it has a great turn rate" sounds.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 157
# 12
05-16-2013, 07:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by voicesdark View Post
The fault is with the ship and it's base turn rate. You should have to cloak every single time you want to turn.
D'deridex has been pegged to be less manoeuvrable than a Galaxy on base stats, and no amount of arguing by players have gotten them to budge on that score.
Vice Admiral Elaron, USS Sky Road
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 220
# 13
05-16-2013, 08:10 PM
we need to keep the argument alive, for years if need be
Captain
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 844
# 14
05-16-2013, 08:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wardcalis View Post
Fix the turn rate for the D'Deridex, It is so bad, it's the greatest ship in startrek history and it's unplayable because of the turn.
Ok heres a solution its not a magic bullet but it helps

1) add 2x armor of your choice

2) RCS

3) Use Battle cloak as much as possible

4) using step 3 adds a 5 second weapons damage buff

5) Dont fly the DD like a federation or a KDF captain think romulan use subterfuge when possible.
Rihannsu
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 700
# 15
05-16-2013, 10:15 PM
The D'Dex has the same turn rate as the bortusqu, and it turns 1 degree per second faster than th Vo'Quv.. Its totally playable Just perhaps not like anyone wishes. I personally use my bortus for a battering ram. It can move a cube several meters sideways while doing a modest amount of damage. The D'Dex design is that of a beam ship. it could have six to eight beams on there and be right at home in the middle of a battle.. Historically, in TNG, the arrival of a D'Dex signaled picards time to change into his brown pants. The difference is though, you dont move it. you park it and let your beams rip everything apart. The real downfall mof the D'Dex is having only a 34000 hull.. Thats the same as an Armitage carrier on a much larger and slower ship.. its actually ridiculously low..
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 220
# 16
05-16-2013, 10:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wufangchu View Post
The real downfall mof the D'Dex is having only a 34000 hull.. Thats the same as an Armitage carrier on a much larger and slower ship.. its actually ridiculously low..
Ya, as I was saying when I drop my shields to cloak I loose 1/2 my hull from already en route crap
Career Officer
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 440
# 17
05-16-2013, 10:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wardcalis View Post
Ya, as I was saying when I drop my shields to cloak I loose 1/2 my hull from already en route crap
Part of that may be that you need to learn when to cloak and when not too. Cloaking is a skill, not a talent, that takes time to learn, and each ship has its quirks with cloaking as well.

Also, half the time in STFs on a cruiser, I hull tank anyway, compared to shield tanking. So not having any shields isn't necessarily a bad thing, if you know what your doing and how to tank. Course if you're built around DPS (and if you're building a D'Deridex around DPS, you may want to reconcider say... a Mogai or something) it won't always work.

But I do agree, a 34000 hull is super low on a slow turning ship, but that's partially fixable with engineering consoles.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 321
# 18
05-16-2013, 10:39 PM
Derp...

34k hull is the base model....not the retrofit or fleet...which i believe is topping the hull levels just slightly from any other ship ingame


auxilliary to dampners, cloak, attack patern omega 1, evasive manuevers...she turns fine with any one of these abiltities thrown down....the ship is huge ...begging for a increased turn rate only brings in nerfs on the ship, and the big D is fine.

If you still dont like it...use something else.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 24
# 19
05-16-2013, 11:09 PM
Well lets look at the actual facts about the ship vrs the Galaxy.
1. Its twice as big so it should have twice the hull right?
2. Its slower not less maneuverable. Meaning its top speed is lower then the Galaxy.

So there is no reason for it to be at a 5.5

That being said part of the problem is its the only Tier 4 ship for Romulans.
So you go from a beautiful escort to a 5.5 turn whale...

That being said no Ship in space that uses IDs and artificial gravity should turn like a whale.

The lowest a Cruiser should go is 7.
End of Story.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 440
# 20
05-16-2013, 11:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by focht666 View Post
Well lets look at the actual facts about the ship vrs the Galaxy.
1. Its twice as big so it should have twice the hull right?
2. Its slower not less maneuverable. Meaning its top speed is lower then the Galaxy.

So there is no reason for it to be at a 5.5

That being said part of the problem is its the only Tier 4 ship for Romulans.
So you go from a beautiful escort to a 5.5 turn whale...

That being said no Ship in space that uses IDs and artificial gravity should turn like a whale.

The lowest a Cruiser should go is 7.
End of Story.
Twice as big does not mean twice the hull. All that extra space, means it needs more structural reinforcement to make it stronger. Hull thickness and building materials is only a small factor in determining any hulls strength, even today. For example, the USS Constitution had such strong hull strength not only because of the supeior oak used in its structure, but the spacing and the construction of the bracing underneath it. If size ony mattered, any ship of the line would have had more hull strength then it had.

Secondly, in TNG, they state specifically that the D'Deridex is slower then the Galaxy class. So for once they're at least partially following lore.

Thirdly, if what you say about ID and artificial gravity, then all ships would turn the same speed, escorts and cruisers. However they only partially negate physics, not totally negate physics. So larger ships, having more mass, would have to have increasingly more powerful dampners to counter-act their mass. Either way, you'd still need to have increasing larger expenditures of energy to get larger ships to counter their mass.

Finally, concidering how large a D'Deridex is, where you can actually fit a Galaxy class inside the wings of it, it's more the size of a carrier, not a cruiser. The Romulans just classify it as a Cruiser, since their Carriers, the Scimitars are even larger.
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