Captain
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 901
As a follow up after reading this thread, I bought Plasmonic Leech immediately off the exchange for a small sum of EC last night. Didn't really have the chance to do some real testing until now due to STO server issues. This is the result of using merely one single Flow Capacitor MK XII Ultra-Rare (Plasma Infused) and a build spec for power drain :

http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/...1462C1D87BA78/

Weapons Power : 125 / 55
Shields Power : 125 / 60
Engines Power : 125 / 60
Auxiliary Power : 130 / 25

Please note from the screenshot, the EPtS was not activated, otherwise, it would add +26.1 to Shields Power due to Electro-Plasma skill = 140, which was redundant given Shields Power is already at 125. Auxiliary power can exceed 125 due to the spec of a Warp Core that allows such design. Only 6 points go into Engines and Shields performance skills each and merely 2 points each to Weapons and Auxiliary performance skills.

The addition of Plasmonic Leech helps tremendously to attain such perfection. So once again, I have to thank all the Klignons who cried and attracted so much attention with this thread that now many of us, Starfleet officers, took notice and promptly incorporated it in our repertoire.

Last but not least, the numbers you see above isn't just some flashes that last only a few seconds, they have a total uptime of 80%, which is 24 seconds per every 30 seconds or 48 seconds per minute. With a power transfer rate at about 300%, my vessel can quickly switch to other power set ups during the very short CD and prepared to fire up again. It seems to me, Klignons will need to hide with their cloaks more than ever.

As for the talk about giving away wide-angle Quantum torpedo, the only fair trade I can see is Klignons giving Starfleet access to Aceton Assimilators in exchange. Otherwise, I don't foresee how the Klignons should access an advanced Starfleet technology without giving up one of their secrets.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,720
# 242
05-22-2013, 10:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickngo View Post
The difference is the relevant value of the systems. So far, Feds have gotten (Useful systems only)
Subspace Jump
Bioneural warhead
Plasmonic Leech

Now, USEFUL ITEMS ONLY KDF has gotten:

AMS.
You forgot the point defense system, which is also a fun little toy when you have high-yield torps or fighters tracking you. Makes Danubes go away.

But beyond that, genuinely asking, what Fed consoles ARE there? Only things I can think of are the torp point defense (which is exclusive to a single ship period) and the wide-angle torpedo. Other than that theres what the MVAE console? The Regent's fart console? The plasma manifold off the Oberth? I think the Klingons just got the best console the Feds have left.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,580
# 243
05-22-2013, 10:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by breadandcircuses View Post
Works for me... after all, how long did you actually use the Ionized Gas Sensor console anyway? At least those that purchased the Vandal got some decent use out of its console. Well, that and the Vandal costs more

Wait, did you actually buy the Exeter?
I did. I liked that it looked like a modern constitution.

Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickngo View Post
The difference is the relevant value of the systems. So far, Feds have gotten (Useful systems only)
Subspace Jump
Bioneural warhead
Plasmonic Leech
Isometric Charge

Now, USEFUL ITEMS ONLY KDF has gotten:

AMS.

That's it.

That's the only USEFUL item KDF has gotten in these tech transfers.

everything else has been pretty much zilch for useful-as in "Things not even FEDERATION players will use more than once before discarding".

It's a fundamental imbalance when the best equipment of one faction is 'traded' to the other in exchange for the worst, least useful, or least effective equivalent.

if this had been an "EVEN" trade, we'd have seen the wide-angle torpedoes on the table in exchange for any of the following:

Isometric Charge
BioNeural Warhead
Plasmonic Leech

Because that would've been a trade that would be balanced-something of equal value being traded.

Your argument basicaly says that the KDf had better cheeze to begin with.
The wide angle torp will probably end up on a KDF c store ship, probably as another torpedo type.

Also nadeon detonator is prety nasty on a b'rel.

And in general I dont use the universal consoled that came on many of my cstore ships. In fact as I think about it I dont use most of what came on my klingon ships either. Only one character even has leech installed.

And before you call the seeker torp useless remember this.
1) there is now an entire faction of battle cloakers that can ally with either KDF or FED.
2) Roms and KDF both have a ship with enhanced battle cloak.
3) The torpedo will also hit non cloaked ships so it isnt wasted in no one cloaks.
4) Leech isnt as great as some people make it out to be.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,395
# 244
05-22-2013, 10:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by reginamala78 View Post
You forgot the point defense system, which is also a fun little toy when you have high-yield torps or fighters tracking you. Makes Danubes go away.

But beyond that, genuinely asking, what Fed consoles ARE there? Only things I can think of are the torp point defense (which is exclusive to a single ship period) and the wide-angle torpedo. Other than that theres what the MVAE console? The Regent's fart console? The plasma manifold off the Oberth? I think the Klingons just got the best console the Feds have left.
Hmmm...

Nadeon Detonator console
Wide-angle Torpedo
Impulse Capacitance Cell
Transwarp Computer console

That's off the top of my head, with no real effort put into the search.

note that none of these have the potential for abuse that the Leech does when coupled with the advantages of Federation ships-that is, they wouldn't be BETTER on a KDF ship than a fed, but the Leech IS.

as it sits right now, about the time that Cryptic puts the Assimilator into a lockbox for the FEderation, we'll see the LAST console trade-because at that point, the KDF supply of anything useful dries up.
"when you're out of Birds of Prey, you're out of ships."
Captain
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 901
# 245
05-22-2013, 10:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by reginamala78 View Post
You forgot the point defense system, which is also a fun little toy when you have high-yield torps or fighters tracking you. Makes Danubes go away.

But beyond that, genuinely asking, what Fed consoles ARE there? Only things I can think of are the torp point defense (which is exclusive to a single ship period) and the wide-angle torpedo. Other than that theres what the MVAE console? The Regent's fart console? The plasma manifold off the Oberth? I think the Klingons just got the best console the Feds have left.
Another pragmatic solution I can think of to address the Klignons' concern is a buff to the emission-seeking torp. As it stands, it does a poor job of tracking cloaked targets and is way too slow. If the torp will now actively track and pursue any cloaked ship within 15Km of it and travels at a speed comparable to say, the Cluster Torp, then this console would be very useful. Hence, the Klignons can no longer complain that this console is useless.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,395
# 246
05-22-2013, 10:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by iskandus View Post
Another pragmatic solution I can think of to address the Klignons' concern is a buff to the emission-seeking torp. As it stands, it does a poor job of tracking cloaked targets and is way too slow. If the torp will now actively track and pursue any cloaked ship within 15Km of it and travels at a speed comparable to say, the Cluster Torp, then this console would be very useful. Hence, the Klignons can no longer complain that this console is useless.
That would be one of those "Ain't gonna happen" items. we're far more likely to see another nerf of the Plas Leech after some QQ from Fed players in FvF.
"when you're out of Birds of Prey, you're out of ships."
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 522
# 247
05-22-2013, 10:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by iskandus View Post
As a follow up after reading this thread, I bought Plasmonic Leech immediately off the exchange for a small sum of EC last night. Didn't really have the chance to do some real testing until now due to STO server issues. This is the result of using merely one single Flow Capacitor MK XII Ultra-Rare (Plasma Infused) and a build spec for power drain :

http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/...1462C1D87BA78/

Weapons Power : 125 / 55
Shields Power : 125 / 60
Engines Power : 125 / 60
Auxiliary Power : 130 / 25

Please note from the screenshot, the EPtS was not activated, otherwise, it would add +26.1 to Shields Power due to Electro-Plasma skill = 140, which was redundant given Shields Power is already at 125. Auxiliary power can exceed 125 due to the spec of a Warp Core that allows such design. Only 6 points go into Engines and Shields performance skills each and merely 2 points each to Weapons and Auxiliary performance skills.

The addition of Plasmonic Leech helps tremendously to attain such perfection. So once again, I have to thank all the Klignons who cried and attracted so much attention with this thread that now many of us, Starfleet officers, took notice and promptly incorporated it in our repertoire.

Last but not least, the numbers you see above isn't just some flashes that last only a few seconds, they have a total uptime of 80%, which is 24 seconds per every 30 seconds or 48 seconds per minute. With a power transfer rate at about 300%, my vessel can quickly switch to other power set ups during the very short CD and prepared to fire up again. It seems to me, Klignons will need to hide with their cloaks more than ever.

As for the talk about giving away wide-angle Quantum torpedo, the only fair trade I can see is Klignons giving Starfleet access to Aceton Assimilators in exchange. Otherwise, I don't foresee how the Klignons should access an advanced Starfleet technology without giving up one of their secrets.
Something is not right here. Did LoR break leech console?
Captain
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 901
# 248
05-22-2013, 10:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickngo View Post
That would be one of those "Ain't gonna happen" items. we're far more likely to see another nerf of the Plas Leech after some QQ from Fed players in FvF.
Don't be so certain. With cloaked ships becoming as common as rats on the streets, there is a pressing need for a more effective counter to cloaked ships. The Emission-Seeking torp was a noble idea that never got off the ground due to poor design some years ago. Following that, there was no pressure to review it as most Feds just gave up on using it so the Dev did nothing. If there is a time to review that console, it's now.

Besides, the Leech is only powerful in the hands of those who know how to use it. The base drain of Leech is merely 1 point per sec up to 8 ticks max. In principle, with 50% drain resist, the base drain is only a laughable 4 points, which most players would just shrug off as irrelevant. The screenshot you are looking at is from someone who boosts that base drain by almost 300% from careful spec planning in skills and traits and boff powers. There is also an opportunity cost for equipping this console as I had to give up on another very useful one in order to accommodate the Leech. It's definitely not without cost but you know that already.

What I find curious is while Leech was an exclusive Klignon tool, the Klignons such as yourself, never called for it to be nerfed and many said it was not OP, merely a "fair" console. Now that Starfleet also has access to it, it became the end of the world? So Klignons are finally admitting it was OP all along, hence the need to nerf? Talking about double standard...and the lack of honor. Case in point, I am in favor of the Human Leadership trait being nerfed, wholeheartly. As you can see in my boff set up, I use only two, it has been that way for a long time. I never approved those who abused the exploit with 5 human boff + the captain = 6 human leadership traits. Besides, my toon is a Betazoid, so my use of Leadership trait has been limited to only 2 from the boff, which unlike those who use 6 copies and virtually instantly heal their hulls. There are things that need to be fixed in this game but if something is only suddenly OP because the other faction now has it too, then it's hypocrisy pure and simple.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,720
# 249
05-22-2013, 11:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickngo View Post
Hmmm...

Nadeon Detonator console
Wide-angle Torpedo
Impulse Capacitance Cell
Transwarp Computer console

That's off the top of my head, with no real effort put into the search.

note that none of these have the potential for abuse that the Leech does when coupled with the advantages of Federation ships-that is, they wouldn't be BETTER on a KDF ship than a fed, but the Leech IS.
Impulse Cell and Nadeon Detonator were already in lockboxes. Transwarp Computer, I admit I thought it was limited to the T3 Excelsior, but I looked up and see I was incorrect. Wide-angle, yeah that seems fair somewhere, or maybe give the Klingons a wide-angle photon or something for local flavor (I like photons better anyways).

As for 'advantages of Federation ships,' I have to go 'huh?' though. Feds have more variety and fleet discounts definitely, no argument there. But superior ships? I just don't see it beyond a few percent advantage here, a few percent drawback there.

The Vesta is definitely a superior science ship, but against the rest the Varanus stacks up just fine. (And lets be honest, this is science we're talking about.) There's also the Voquv vs the Atrox, which stack pretty evenly and comes down to pet preference, though Feds do not have any frigates. Then there's the Karfi which is unlike anything Fed side. Cruisers, KDF battlecruiser knock the stuffing out of their Fed counterparts with comparable boff layouts, hulls, and shielding, but superior power distribution and maneuverability with no drawbacks.

Then there's escorts, where hulls shields and maneuverability are about the same, but Feds do have a lot more variety in layouts available. However, Klingons also get the BoP which has any layout you want and the only Federation 'counterpart' is the joke Aquarius. There IS the Kumari with its 5 forward weapons, but what it pays for those, every one of my fleetmates who bought the thing went back to what they were driving earlier, and they're much better escort pilots than I so I'll trust their judgement on that ship. The only real escort difference left then is the 5th tac console (which amounts to what 5% more damage?) versus cloaking devices. One allows a little more pressure damage but always works (though costs you a console somewhere else), the other is finicky but when it does work grants complete tactical initiative.

So science is close with Feds having 1 better ship. Carriers go to Klingons. Cruisers go to Klingons. Multipurpose ships go to Klingons. Escorts are close with the Feds having a slight edge that could be fixed with another release or two for better BOFF seating. And thats not even bringing up the extras in consoles or cloaks, which is another all-around KDF advantage, major or minor a bonus as they may be, but a separate discussion. So whats the 'superiority' that I'm missing, because I don't see it?

Last edited by reginamala78; 05-22-2013 at 11:15 PM.
Lieutenant
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 75
# 250
05-22-2013, 11:14 PM
I think the KDF reaction to the Fed's getting the Leech is pretty clear. It's not on the basis of it being overpowered per se, it's a loss of distinctiveness for the KDF. It's the different acquisition price for the Feds (EC) than the KDF (Zen). It's a desirable console. Is it an I win button? No. But it's something that made the KDF different than the Fed's. Now, not so much.

And there doesn't seem to be much backlash for the emission seeking things being "given" to the KDF. Doesn't that sort of support the point of view that it's not "as good" as the Leech?

It's all marginal utility of the trade off, and the KDF see that as all going in a one way street toward the federation. Your mileage may vary.
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