Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 202
# 391
06-04-2013, 05:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by father0niveus View Post
So I see. Well then, I call foul, I call foul very very much. I'm fighting the urge to write a few far more colorful responses because this sort of behavior is simply reprehensible. Am I ticked about the limit? Well yes. However, I'm even more ticked that something like this was introduced without letting us know it was coming. Why? Brandon you said you were passing along feedback from the Twitter thread so please pass this along as well. This type of behavior is doing nothing but alienating your player base. Most of us, sure there are times I wonder though, are mature individuals and will respond well to simple honesty. Many of us are not happy with the change but it would have been much easier to swallow if you'd just been honest with us about it.

Now if I (and the others who have expressed outrage at how this mail change was implemented) missed an announcement somewhere, then I give you my apologies now. If we didn't, then I'm really curious to know what exactly the thought process behind doing this unannounced was.
This.
Before LOR they announced that Nukia boxes were going to be removed. I hadn't been to Nukia before so I had a look. I then decided to farm the Crystal Gear for all my alts and save for my ROM alts. Well a few days before LOR they opened up Beta. I found out boxes would still drop post LOR but the Crystal Gear would be removed. So I opened up all the boxes I had been saving for my ROM alts and let others know too. Oh purple weapons were removed from the boxes too.

Anyway, the result of this stealth nerf has changed my behavior. I no longer sell high and low level items from all my alts. Especially with the delete mail bug. Now I use 1 alt and it's only worth my time to sell the high value items.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 959
# 392
06-04-2013, 06:46 AM
It's not unreasonable to limit the amount of free storage people get. Essentially, the mail system was an end-run around expanding your account bank.

However, I might argue that 100 is too low a limit. That's only 20 mails at 5 attachments per mail.
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Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,600
# 393
06-04-2013, 06:51 AM
I m with you Neav, however, we need to stop having all these currencies that use up inventory space, and we need better storage options. This goes for Doffs, Pets, Tribbles, Food etc. Why can't lock box ships not be like a c-store unlock. There are a lot of quality of life improvements that could soften the blow from removing infinite mail storage. This could be a win win situation for the server hamsters and the bean counters
Joined 06.10
PvP 2010-2011
PvP 2012-2013
Lieutenant
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 48
# 394
06-04-2013, 07:36 AM
Yes, the mailbox limit is OK to have, BUT YOU SHOULD HAVE ANNOUNCED IT!!!!

AND YOU SHOULD HAVE MADE SURE IT ACTUALLY WORKS!!!!!
I currently have 71 items in my mailbox, of which approx. 20 are older than 6 months - so those shouldn't count (and event if they do count against the limit, i'm still short).
Now I don't know exactly how many items are hidden in the "unsold item returned from exchange" messages I have, but I only have about a dozen of these, and as far as I know they can only contain 1 item.
I am not a "power user", I am just a normal customer who recently wanted to clear out a charakter to free up a character slot.

You might have guessed it by now, but I can no longer send items by mail. And I have not reached the 100 attachments limit.
So it is not just a stealth nerf, it is a BROKEN stealth nerf. Congratulations on a job well done.


I understand that there has to be a limit to free storage, especially since Cryptic wants to sell expanded storage options. But quietly introducing a broken limit and hoping nobody will notice is really just stupid.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 197
# 395
06-04-2013, 07:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by naevius View Post
It's not unreasonable to limit the amount of free storage people get. Essentially, the mail system was an end-run around expanding your account bank.

However, I might argue that 100 is too low a limit. That's only 20 mails at 5 attachments per mail.
The main point is that this major change was not published before release. It has hamstrung many players, especially folks who are having to micro-manage doff's for SB projects and the out of balance doff requirements.

The lack of storage in the game is a problem and folks would probably pay to expand bank slots and doff rosters, but the limits are set way too low for the daily game mechanics of progressing characters and SB.
Locutus

Delirium Tremens
Tier 4 Starbase, Tier 3 Embassy
http://dtfleet.com/
Community Moderator
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,657
# 396
06-04-2013, 07:58 AM
This wasn't a stealth nerf; this was emergency maintenance. The mail system was being broken, and that breaking was affecting other things.

And those of you who were abusing the mail system for free item storage KNEW you were doing something unintended, and thus knew eventually the free ride would come to a stop. There is an easy solution to the "problem" of having too many white doffs:

Lower your Exchange prices for them. They'll sell, prices will come down, and people won't feel the need to store them anymore because they'll be plentiful in the Exchange. Put the EC in your fleet bank, and let your officers use it to buy the doffs they need for the fleet projects. Or keep the EC yourself, and buy the doffs for your fleet.

This will work if there's a limit on storage, which there now is. Now the market needs to adjust, which will take time. It'll take less time if you help it instead of fighting it.
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Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,465
# 397
06-04-2013, 08:01 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by syberghost View Post
There is an easy solution to the "problem" of having too many white doffs:
Conversely, Cryptic could remove the branch specific restrictions on all projects. Market problem solved, having to store doffs problem solved.

Only problem remaining is borked acquisition rates.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 197
# 398
06-04-2013, 08:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by syberghost View Post
This wasn't a stealth nerf; this was emergency maintenance. The mail system was being broken, and that breaking was affecting other things.

And those of you who were abusing the mail system for free item storage KNEW you were doing something unintended, and thus knew eventually the free ride would come to a stop. There is an easy solution to the "problem" of having too many white doffs:

Lower your Exchange prices for them. They'll sell, prices will come down, and people won't feel the need to store them anymore because they'll be plentiful in the Exchange. Put the EC in your fleet bank, and let your officers use it to buy the doffs they need for the fleet projects. Or keep the EC yourself, and buy the doffs for your fleet.

This will work if there's a limit on storage, which there now is. Now the market needs to adjust, which will take time. It'll take less time if you help it instead of fighting it.
Even if you are correct, they should have published what was going on so folks could adjust. A major change for something where opinion's think it is an exploit or not... it is poor business not to explain the situation except by a twitter response.

How this was handled was wrong regardless of position/opinion.
Locutus

Delirium Tremens
Tier 4 Starbase, Tier 3 Embassy
http://dtfleet.com/
Lieutenant
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 48
# 399
06-04-2013, 09:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by syberghost View Post
This wasn't a stealth nerf; this was emergency maintenance. The mail system was being broken, and that breaking was affecting other things.

And those of you who were abusing the mail system for free item storage KNEW you were doing something unintended, and thus knew eventually the free ride would come to a stop. There is an easy solution to the "problem" of having too many white doffs:

Lower your Exchange prices for them. They'll sell, prices will come down, and people won't feel the need to store them anymore because they'll be plentiful in the Exchange. Put the EC in your fleet bank, and let your officers use it to buy the doffs they need for the fleet projects. Or keep the EC yourself, and buy the doffs for your fleet.

This will work if there's a limit on storage, which there now is. Now the market needs to adjust, which will take time. It'll take less time if you help it instead of fighting it.

If you "fix" something to the disadvantage of the player population it is called a nerf.

Prices for sci doffs cannot come down any further, they are already at a point where it makes more sense to airlock them, but some people dislike doing so (RP equivalent of killing an underperforming junior officer), so they look for ways to store them.

And I am NOT abusing the mail system. I am a returning player (actually I retured 1-2 weeks BEFORE LoR), so I have some old mails in my inbox (unsold items, items I wanted to transfer to another character...).
Now I want to start a 2nd romulan character. To do this without paying money for a (currently) broken game I have to delete an old character. Because I do not want to throw all the progress and money I have made with this soon-to-be-deleted-character out the window I try to transfer as much money and equipment away to my other characters and/or store it for the new character. So I sold all white doffs (except for sci) and transferred the rarer quality doffs via the mailbox. The shared account bank is simply too small for 40-50 doffs, and again, I am unwilling to put money into a broken system.

I am still well below the 100 attachments limit, but I can no longer send my passengers to my other characters.

tldr: YES it is a nerf. NO, I did not abuse the mail system. And YES the new system is broken.

The honorable thing to do would be to apologize, remove the limit, maybe think about other solutions to storage problems (take a good look at WoW's "void storage" long term storage solution), and OFFICIALLY reintroduce the attachment limit in a few months (preferably after you have fixed the inability to delete mail).
Commander
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 374
# 400
06-04-2013, 09:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by syberghost View Post
And those of you who were abusing the mail system for free item storage KNEW you were doing something unintended, and thus knew eventually the free ride would come to a stop.
Unintended? Really? How was one "intended" to transfer items between characters? That was the main purpose of item attachments in mail (be it to your or another persons toon) and by the way is the ONLY reason to store white doffs in it. I personally never used mail to "store" anything besides doffs and boffs because the storage limit is CAPPED for individual characters. My main character has MAXIMUM slots, bank, inventory, doffs, you name it. Even account bank and subber slots. NOT ENOUGH for DoFFs and BoFFs, period. You see, it works like this: toon X is in a fleet. X fleet doesn't need doffs right now but toon Y's fleet does. 600 to be exact. It makes more sense to have 600 sci doffs in mail system than anywhere else. Which brings me to point #2....

Quote:
Originally Posted by syberghost View Post
Lower your Exchange prices for them. They'll sell, prices will come down, and people won't feel the need to store them anymore because they'll be plentiful in the Exchange. Put the EC in your fleet bank, and let your officers use it to buy the doffs they need for the fleet projects. Or keep the EC yourself, and buy the doffs for your fleet.
Lower until what end, 1ec? So now instead of the time consuming process of putting 5 at a time in mail (already a pain), now sell 40 doffs, swap toons, buy 40 doffs. Now you will say the EXCHANGE is being exploited. Give me a break guy, don't let the bean counter skew your logic. This WAS a stealth nerf, no 2 ways about it. Whether it was the sole, expressed, intended purpose of invisible developers to accommodate fleet project requirements is irrelevant. Provide a solution then and don't just stick out your tongue and call us exploiters.

If your post is anything like, "I have a sandwich so you can't be starving" it's time to rethink posting. ~thlaylierah
So realistically, you only need to have the exact number of doffs that you need. ~leadme2kirk
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