Lieutenant
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 55
# 1 Tanking as KDF?
05-21-2013, 11:37 PM
(I know there's a fed thread as well. I will decide later between fed and kdf as my next toon (saving last one for rommy).)

So, after finding myself surprisingly able to survive in a BoP (...at least longer than I would have expected), I've been thinking of making a toon specifically so I can be a tank and be good at tanking along side dealing decent DPS. My initial thought would be to make an engi character and stick him in a cruiser. However, I've recently heard that cruisers, especially with engi captains, are bad due to their low turn rate, and the best tanks are the sci ships and/or carriers with sci captains.

Is this true? If so, what are some good ships for the KDF for this role beyond the Vo'Quv (which moves like my refrigerator)?If not, what would be some good cruisers for an engi? Or can I be an epic tank in a Fleet Vor'Cha as a tac captain (so I can save time).
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Formerly Traven158
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,096
# 2
05-22-2013, 12:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by arcanis161 View Post
Or can I be an epic tank in a Fleet Vor'Cha as a tac captain (so I can save time).
You can save time, at least in PvE. Load up it's Commander and Ensign Engineer spots with heals, put on a couple of Neutroniums with a Positron or Adapted MACO deflector and you should be good to go. SIF Generator and/or the Embassy consoles with heal proc will put you even higher. I use the Fleet Tor'kaht on my Tac to good tanky effect, though I've been playing with my Kar'fi lately (Kar'fi not very tanky without a lot of help, thanks to it's Lt. Eng BOff and two Eng consoles).

PvP, I can't really say.
Career Officer
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,353
# 3
05-22-2013, 12:37 AM
There are ways around the bad turn rate. My personal favorite is Aux2Damp+EvasiveManeuvers+APO1. That combo will make the Barge of the Dead turn on its heel.

Well, it gets my Tac Bortasqu to snap right around anyway.


But yeah, KDF battlecruisers in general make great tanks that can still dish out even more pain than they can take.


"I won't try to hide behind the Law if what I stand for is what's Right."

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Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,327
# 4
05-22-2013, 12:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tom61sto View Post
You can save time, at least in PvE. Load up it's Commander and Ensign Engineer spots with heals, put on a couple of Neutroniums with a Positron or Adapted MACO deflector and you should be good to go. SIF Generator and/or the Embassy consoles with heal proc will put you even higher. I use the Fleet Tor'kaht on my Tac to good tanky effect, though I've been playing with my Kar'fi lately (Kar'fi not very tanky without a lot of help, thanks to it's Lt. Eng BOff and two Eng consoles).

PvP, I can't really say.
A Cruiser can be built tough. You have to build it towards that, and anything taking away from defenses and repairs weakens that ability.

ENG Consoles: Some Neutroniums and SIF Generators are in order here. Neutroniums for all around resists, SIF Generators for hull repair bonuses.

SCI Consoles: Some options but limited space due to Cruisers generally having 2, 3 SCI Console slots if they're lucky. Field Emitters bring a great bonus to shield capacity. Shield Emitter Amplifier bring extra shield regen rates. Emitter Arrays enhance Starship Shield Emitters Skill, which improve any shield repairs. These 3 are the basics of a defensive setup. A significant note is that Field Emitters and Shield Emitter Amplifiers do not have equivalents in the Romulan Embassy SCI Consoles. But Emitter Arrays do, and have a variety of procs available.

ENG BOFF: Cruisers generally have the space to be extravagant in the better ENG skills. Very possible to stuff double EPTS3 while still having space for ET. Generally, I try to stuff ET3 in there somewhere. The repairs it does, alogside 2-3 SIF Generators is immense. Also consider ASIF, especially ASIF3 for the Cmdr spot. Decent 1-shot hull repair that also brings some resists to the hull for some time. It's also based on Aux Power. You also have the options to throw in RSP for shield recovery in an emergency situation. Also, in a support capacity, Extend Shields can be used to enhance the resists of an ally that is facing quite a bit of fire. Or if you want to bring some offensive punch, you can maybe cram in EPTW or even DEM. DEM increases energy weapon damage past shields. It also lasts for a long time, like around 30 seconds with DEM3.

SCI BOFF: Most Cruisers tend to have the following SCI BOFF slots: Either Lt only, or Ens+Lt. There's a rare few that do more than this, like the Fleet Corsair. But with the common 2 types, consider these 3 bare core SCI skills in the following order of importance:
1. Polarize Hull: No hull heals, but they bring good hull resists and more importantly, they break you free of Tractors. This is a big deal in PVP and PVE. In PVE, most especially STFs, you'll get tractored if within the 5k range, which sets you up for a very nasty shot that, in Elite levels, can easily one shot you. In PVP, Tractors are used for the exact same tactics. The reason is that a target that is held still has no movement and a defense bonus as a result, and will always get hit. In PVP, if you want to be held still for something like a timed Beam Overload 3 with Quantums following up, be my guest and do not have PH somewhere.

2. Hazard Emitters: Small hull HOT as well as small hull resists. The important thing with HE though is clearing Hazards like plasma burns, which is heavily prevalent in PVP as well as Elite STFs. PVP in general, if you do not have HE somewhere, with the prevalence of plasma energy weapons and torps, you can potentially be melted to 0 hull while still having high shield strength. The plasma burn can screw you over if you are not prepared. HE easily negates that.

3. Transfer Shield strength: Cram this ability if you can, but only after PH and HE are in. TSS is a shield repair that also brings some shield resists. It can be used on yourself or an ally.

Aux Power Synergy: If you are in a defensive mode or are going into heavy repairs, Aux Power is essential. Maintain high shield power, divert more power and consider Aux Batteries to enhance Aux Subsystem Power. Aux Power benefits greatly several skills that I brought up, and enhance them with more Aux Power. Practically all SCI abilities are based off of Aux Power, and ENG's ASIF also benefits from it.

In addition, the skills with hull repair ability, ASIF, HE, or pure defensive abiity (PH), or shield repair / resists ability (TSS) do *not* conflict with each other and put any of its counterparts into a cooldown. That is key.

Space Sets: Alot of shields can do the defensive job pretty well. But the important piece in a defensive ship is the Deflectors. Structural Integrity, Shield Emitters, Shield System, Inertial Dampeners (against stuff like tractors and grav well), Power Insulators (important against Energy Drain Builds in PVP). Those all increase ship survivability. There are some that enhance most of those skills. Some deflectors do that well, others are absolutely terrible for it.

Last edited by warmaker001b; 05-22-2013 at 01:00 AM.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 513
# 5
05-22-2013, 07:19 AM
The Fleet Negh'var is probably what I'd be taking a close look at if my primary goal was to make a monster tank. Maybe the War Bortasqu, but then we're back to the manuverability issue you're dealing with on the Vo'Quv.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,241
# 6
05-22-2013, 09:27 AM
There's always the Mirror Vo'quv as well. With 5 engineering slots it can tank almost as well as a cruiser (EPTS3 if you use damage-control officers), plus the science commander, plus pets. Not as spiffy as a fleet ship but a lot easier to get.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 186
# 7
05-22-2013, 03:57 PM
Here's my current KDF tank build:

http://skillplanner.stoacademy.com/?build=kodran_3516

It works okay. I've got 3 Doffs to cut the cooldown on Engineering Team to 15 seconds. However, I've recently begun to entertain the notion of changing my Boff layout to this:

http://skillplanner.stoacademy.com/?build=kodran2_3516

Swapping the cooldown DOFFs to boost tactical team. I lose EWP III, but most teams need to treat my Warp Plasma as hostile, since they might not see who laid it down. My uptime on BFaW drops, but as it is, it's only really important that it lines up with APB for the AOE debuff. The big win is permanent immunity to disable effects, plus better speed and turn rate, for more time on target, to say nothing of bonus kinetic resistance. And of course, once my fleet reaches Tier IV, I'll be grabbing the Fleet Neg'Var, because DAMN.
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