Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 33
# 11
05-25-2013, 09:44 AM
Ok, so the fleet B'rel has all universal BOff slots, while the fleet T'varo has a universal Lt.Cdr slot, but it also has an Ensign Tac slot, for a 5th BOff slot, while the B'rel has 4.

Both have Enhanced Battle Cloaks, except the T'varo has an Enchanced Romulan Battle Cloak, which is slightly better, but not important of a difference.

The T'varo has 20% more hull, than the B'rel (29700 vs. 24750) and 12.5% more shields (0.99 vs. 0.88 shield modifier). The T'varo also has an extra aft weapon slot.
The B'rel has a turnrate of 23, while the T'varo "only" has 18. The T'varo also comes with a special console, on top of the Enhanced Battle Cloak, which was supposed to be the B'rel's special trick.

The only things the B'rel beats the T'varo, is that it has universal BOff seating, although still has 1 BOff less. And better turnrate.

Yeah, talk about power creep.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,251
# 12
05-25-2013, 10:06 AM
The T'varo does look very appealing, when I do eventually roll a Romulan Tactical the T'varo is the ship she will be flying. The B'rel does need a boost as do a lot of other older ships. Plus the dilithium description needs rewording as you can no longer get the best ships using dilithium, that honour goes to fleet and lock box ships. Even c-store ships are no longer considered the best.

newromulan1 made a good point about PvP, will all the rep, fleet and other stuff it's just scaring people off. You need a decent sized fleet and a lot of resources and time developed to a character to be competitive.
To be totally honest PvP should be scaled so it disables reputation bonuses, scale all ship stats and fleet gear to c-store or free ship stats (that or only allow free ships to enter PvP arenas) so PvP will be based on skill rather than shinies. A level playing field is what will make the good players shine and the bad players learn and improve.

As it currently stands, PvP is simply not worth all the time and effort especially though of us in small fleets that have only just hit tier 2 and don't have all the fancy fleet stuff and ships to compete with.
Quote:
Originally Posted by macronius View Post
Cryptic is sloppy. Breaking News at 11. This is what happens when there is no outline or plan and you just make up **** as you go along.
Quote:
Originally Posted by shredder75 View Post
We can tell our great grandchildren, "In my day, our cloaks were so sensitive that even dialogue broke them and we couldn't change our clothes!"
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 959
# 13
05-25-2013, 11:34 AM
Another point - the TVaro (T1) comes with a surprisingly good console, which then combines with the T5 TVaro console for extra benefits. Plus, the T5 console is a free weapon. (A bad one in PvP, but still.)
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Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,251
# 14
05-25-2013, 06:13 PM
There is a thread in the general discussion area about this also.

http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/sh...php?p=10351341

Someone made the point that the B'rel has all the universal slots and that if all federation ships or at least some could get them, then the BOP's could get a buff. Not surprised.

However I must point out that the Universal BOFF stations on the B'rel I think was done as it was on all KDF BOPs to allow for the lack any any decent science ships, but it still isn't a very viable science ship due to the lack of hull and shield points.

While the Universal slots can allow for a lot, the sacrifices the ships have for it doesn't make it all that much of an advantage at all. It's only really a viable PvP ship and what 90% (?) of the STO community doesn't play PvP due to all the shines and expense you need to stay competitive today.

The BOP class in general needs a buff, none of are are saying turning them into fully fledged escorts just beef them up a bit with some more hull a more destroyer like shield modifier and perhaps an addition aft (or fore to spice things up a bit) weapon slot. The Raptor and destroyer class would still be a harder ship in terms of durability, it would just allow the ship to be a more viable choice for players in the PvE environment.
Quote:
Originally Posted by macronius View Post
Cryptic is sloppy. Breaking News at 11. This is what happens when there is no outline or plan and you just make up **** as you go along.
Quote:
Originally Posted by shredder75 View Post
We can tell our great grandchildren, "In my day, our cloaks were so sensitive that even dialogue broke them and we couldn't change our clothes!"
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,333
# 15
05-25-2013, 10:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bitemepwe View Post
Tis true. Many vessels in the game have fallen off the end due to new vessel power creep.
I do wish that Cryptic would do a once-twice over on all the older vessel ingame and balance them accordingly to the latest PC bar.
Roach, it will take more than a once-twice to fix the problems, but a total re-commitment of Cryptic towards PvP.
Captain
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 2,987
# 16
05-26-2013, 01:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by whamhammer1 View Post
Roach, it will take more than a once-twice to fix the problems, but a total re-commitment of Cryptic towards PvP.
its not limited to pvp.
its the mechanical workings of the game.

one of which leads us to the silly situation where a kilometer across ship can turn so fast the inside wingtip ends up going backwards...

simultaneous issues
1- dhc dps is too high. 600+ meter fighter ships that are actually cruisers/destroyers/etc. arent helping that.
2- heals are too powerful. HoT & things that just boost passive regen are lacking.
3- hulls are too squishy. need more/better sustained resists.
4- shields need reworking.
as it turns out, an intrepid would lose a fight with a connie.
and thats canon.
! the power of plot compels you.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,491
# 17
05-26-2013, 02:28 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by majesticmsfc View Post
There is a thread in the general discussion area about this also.

http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/sh...php?p=10351341

Someone made the point that the B'rel has all the universal slots and that if all federation ships or at least some could get them, then the BOP's could get a buff. Not surprised.

However I must point out that the Universal BOFF stations on the B'rel I think was done as it was on all KDF BOPs to allow for the lack any any decent science ships, but it still isn't a very viable science ship due to the lack of hull and shield points.

While the Universal slots can allow for a lot, the sacrifices the ships have for it doesn't make it all that much of an advantage at all. It's only really a viable PvP ship and what 90% (?) of the STO community doesn't play PvP due to all the shines and expense you need to stay competitive today.

The BOP class in general needs a buff, none of are are saying turning them into fully fledged escorts just beef them up a bit with some more hull a more destroyer like shield modifier and perhaps an addition aft (or fore to spice things up a bit) weapon slot. The Raptor and destroyer class would still be a harder ship in terms of durability, it would just allow the ship to be a more viable choice for players in the PvE environment.
I guess I"m in the vast minority of BoP players in that I really don't want Cryptic to mess with them to make them more like other ships.

Flying a BoP is like taking a motorcycle into an unlimited cross-country rally event, adding hull just makes for less of the right 'feel', same for adding a weapons-slot to the rear. Mabye to the front, but not the rear. IF I wanted a Raptor that Battlecloaks, I'd pull the vet rewards ship out of the dock more than once a year.

The BoP's 'defects' are core to the feel of the class-you're in a ship you have to be careful with or you go to respawn, no matter WHAT idiotic crap they add this season or next in terms of OP gear, OP passives, OP Rep crap, etc. etc. etc.

above all things, and alone among the ship classes, the Bird of Prey is a 'pilot's aircraft'-it's stripped to the elemental aspects, nothing unnecessary, nothing excessive, in PvP that means your passes and decloaks have to be DEAD ON, buff's aren't 'cycled' they're 'prepared' and you get one chance to either get it right, or fail explosively as the other guy's pets, spam, and wingman make you into ground targ.

If you want a ship to brute it out, decloaked and in the open, you should probably go for a Raptor instead, or one of the excellent KDF Battlecruisers designed for that from the get-go. The BoP is a striker's bird, not a grunt.
"when you're out of Birds of Prey, you're out of ships."
Career Officer
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 225
# 18
05-26-2013, 11:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickngo View Post
I guess I"m in the vast minority of BoP players in that I really don't want Cryptic to mess with them to make them more like other ships.

Flying a BoP is like taking a motorcycle into an unlimited cross-country rally event, adding hull just makes for less of the right 'feel', same for adding a weapons-slot to the rear. Mabye to the front, but not the rear. IF I wanted a Raptor that Battlecloaks, I'd pull the vet rewards ship out of the dock more than once a year.

The BoP's 'defects' are core to the feel of the class-you're in a ship you have to be careful with or you go to respawn, no matter WHAT idiotic crap they add this season or next in terms of OP gear, OP passives, OP Rep crap, etc. etc. etc.

above all things, and alone among the ship classes, the Bird of Prey is a 'pilot's aircraft'-it's stripped to the elemental aspects, nothing unnecessary, nothing excessive, in PvP that means your passes and decloaks have to be DEAD ON, buff's aren't 'cycled' they're 'prepared' and you get one chance to either get it right, or fail explosively as the other guy's pets, spam, and wingman make you into ground targ.

If you want a ship to brute it out, decloaked and in the open, you should probably go for a Raptor instead, or one of the excellent KDF Battlecruisers designed for that from the get-go. The BoP is a striker's bird, not a grunt.
so is the t'varo yet it gets more of everything, so we are back to the argument, why use a bop when a t'varo is so much better at the job
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,250
# 19
05-26-2013, 12:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by retrosrages View Post
so is the t'varo yet it gets more of everything, so we are back to the argument, why use a bop when a t'varo is so much better at the job
Well ... I got nothing.

I suppose its the universal stations as the T'varo are locked outside the Lt. Cmd universal so the B'rel have some more experimentation room but in the end you really dont need it much and the T'varo higher hull and shield modifier makes it more adaptable, the B'rel is still a BoP and cannot act as a Escort/Raider and the T'varo can if it wants too and have enough freedom to experiment.

Maybe Warp Cores/Singularity might make some difference but I dont think so, the T'varo simply doesnt pay for the enhanced battelcloak as the B'rel does.
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Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,491
# 20
05-26-2013, 01:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by f2pdrakron View Post
Well ... I got nothing.

I suppose its the universal stations as the T'varo are locked outside the Lt. Cmd universal so the B'rel have some more experimentation room but in the end you really dont need it much and the T'varo higher hull and shield modifier makes it more adaptable, the B'rel is still a BoP and cannot act as a Escort/Raider and the T'varo can if it wants too and have enough freedom to experiment.

Maybe Warp Cores/Singularity might make some difference but I dont think so, the T'varo simply doesnt pay for the enhanced battelcloak as the B'rel does.
You just said it-more of everything-which means it's NOT like a BoP, it's NOT stripped to the essentials. "More of everything" is, in this case "Training wheels".
"when you're out of Birds of Prey, you're out of ships."
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