Rihannsu
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,375
# 21
05-26-2013, 02:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickngo View Post
You just said it-more of everything-which means it's NOT like a BoP, it's NOT stripped to the essentials. "More of everything" is, in this case "Training wheels".
Its not training wheels because lets compare it with the T5 Defiant.

T5 Defiant can cloak but have to waste a console for it and its cloak, not even battlecloak and it have just 3k more hull but 1 less turn rate, one more tactical console and one less science console and have a Lt. Cmd Tac instead of it being universal.

The T'varo is pretty much a Defiant with build-in enhanced battlecloak, a universal Lt Cmdr and a console slot swamp because it wasnt build from a raider, it was build from a escort.
Romulans ...
You start your career off as a simple farmer... then you launch yourself into a galaxy filled with intrigue, power plays, and high stakes games of interstellar conflict, as your career careens upwards onto your final destination ... a level capped Dilithium and Fleet Mark Farmer!
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,529
# 22
05-26-2013, 02:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by f2pdrakron View Post
Its not training wheels because lets compare it with the T5 Defiant.

T5 Defiant can cloak but have to waste a console for it and its cloak, not even battlecloak and it have just 3k more hull but 1 less turn rate, one more tactical console and one less science console and have a Lt. Cmd Tac instead of it being universal.

The T'varo is pretty much a Defiant with build-in enhanced battlecloak, a universal Lt Cmdr and a console slot swamp because it wasnt build from a raider, it was build from a escort.
Then the comparison isn't 'B'rel to T'varo', it's properly "T'Varo to Defiant".

'cause the B'rel is a Bird of Prey, not just-another-Raptor/Escort (yawn).

Comparing the two makes as much sense as comparing a JHAS to a B'rel-they aren't even close in terms of purpose.
"when you're out of Birds of Prey, you're out of ships."
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,375
# 23
05-26-2013, 02:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickngo View Post
Then the comparison isn't 'B'rel to T'varo', it's properly "T'Varo to Defiant".
The comparison is that both have the same innate ability, enhanced battlecloak but the B'rel gets no universal console or anything besides the enhanced battlecloak ability.

Considering both ships are supposed to have the same role then we have one ship that is better that the other, the "difference" is just faction.
Romulans ...
You start your career off as a simple farmer... then you launch yourself into a galaxy filled with intrigue, power plays, and high stakes games of interstellar conflict, as your career careens upwards onto your final destination ... a level capped Dilithium and Fleet Mark Farmer!
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 998
# 24
05-26-2013, 07:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by naevius View Post
Another point - the TVaro (T1) comes with a surprisingly good console, which then combines with the T5 TVaro console for extra benefits. Plus, the T5 console is a free weapon. (A bad one in PvP, but still.)
LOL, you're forgetting that pretty much everything in the Rom Rep buff and make the torpedo more powerful (+Defense, +Damage, -CD and +Speed).
Hi, my name is: Elim Garak, Former Cardassian Oppressor

LTS, here since...when did this game launch again?
Career Officer
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 3,926
# 25
05-27-2013, 12:16 AM
the t'varo is able to rapidly respond to problems, has the dps with dhc, dc and turret build and is small enough and very agile that most stuff can miss it especially with elusive trait and skills to higher defense values. love the destabilized heavy plasma torpedo it's easily one of the more interesting things that can be fired off into a mob with the enhanced battle cloak. and before it hits its target you can swing around and do several hard scatter volleys and various buffs. bye bye mob .
Joined STO late 2010. Bought starter pack LoR & LTS 2013.
Proud owner of a Targ pup to a federation character.
T5 Miranda FTW! Hope to see Miranda Class made a T5 ship.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,529
# 26
05-27-2013, 12:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mirrorchaos View Post
the t'varo is able to rapidly respond to problems, has the dps with dhc, dc and turret build and is small enough and very agile that most stuff can miss it especially with elusive trait and skills to higher defense values. love the destabilized heavy plasma torpedo it's easily one of the more interesting things that can be fired off into a mob with the enhanced battle cloak. and before it hits its target you can swing around and do several hard scatter volleys and various buffs. bye bye mob .
The T'Varo is just a Defiant with EBC, something that Feds have been agitating for for years. Right now on the PvP threads, the Feds are QQ'ing because now, they have to face it in the FvF ques.

Let us NOT follow their example.
"when you're out of Birds of Prey, you're out of ships."
Lieutenant
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 41
# 27
05-27-2013, 01:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickngo View Post
The T'Varo is just a Defiant with EBC, something that Feds have been agitating for for years. Right now on the PvP threads, the Feds are QQ'ing because now, they have to face it in the FvF ques.

Let us NOT follow their example.
The problem may not be the fact that the T'varo is a superior ship than the B'rel with an Enhanced Battle Cloak, or that the T'varo is a superior Defiant Retrofit. The problem is that the T'varo is just the latest example of unrestricted power creep.

Star Trek Online will eventually reach a point where it will be unplayable with the ships that players have come to know and love. I know that my interest in the game is waning at a considerably faster pace than it did last year due to the unwillingness to properly balance the game.

Star Trek Online is quickly becoming a game that sacrifices gameplay, and actual sense, in the name of profit. Is that something we should be supporting? Or should we try to convince Cryptic that they're making a mistake before they bleed out more and more casual players that simply cannot keep up with purchasing more and more ships, while having their old purchases become obsolete and worthless?

EDIT: Also ask yourself a very important question. How long has Star Trek Online been out? Has Cryptic ever done a balance pass? Have they ever altered the stats on a ship to bring it in line with other ships? Or have they simply released new ships that are superior to the older ships? Is this a healthy business model? Is this a business model you want to support?

Last edited by sethketa; 05-27-2013 at 01:57 AM.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,251
# 28
05-27-2013, 04:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sethketa View Post
The problem may not be the fact that the T'varo is a superior ship than the B'rel with an Enhanced Battle Cloak, or that the T'varo is a superior Defiant Retrofit. The problem is that the T'varo is just the latest example of unrestricted power creep.

Star Trek Online will eventually reach a point where it will be unplayable with the ships that players have come to know and love. I know that my interest in the game is waning at a considerably faster pace than it did last year due to the unwillingness to properly balance the game.

Star Trek Online is quickly becoming a game that sacrifices gameplay, and actual sense, in the name of profit. Is that something we should be supporting? Or should we try to convince Cryptic that they're making a mistake before they bleed out more and more casual players that simply cannot keep up with purchasing more and more ships, while having their old purchases become obsolete and worthless?

EDIT: Also ask yourself a very important question. How long has Star Trek Online been out? Has Cryptic ever done a balance pass? Have they ever altered the stats on a ship to bring it in line with other ships? Or have they simply released new ships that are superior to the older ships? Is this a healthy business model? Is this a business model you want to support?
Well said, I am in the same boat where I am now just settling on a ship and running with it. I too have found it an endless battle to try and get the best out of a character due to this method that Cryptic has adopted. The game has really started to go downhill since season 6, some nice features have be added but only to benefit this greed tactic they have adopted making it harder and harder for casual and even serious gamers.

I have even decided not to do any more rep grind because of this. It's becoming too much of a job and a lot of the fun with this game is quickly disappearing because how Cryptic/PWE have turned this into a profit only game. No wonder they released the Romulans, it may work in the short-term but in the overall unless they change and return to their roots I can see it only prolonging the inevitable.
Quote:
Originally Posted by macronius View Post
Cryptic is sloppy. Breaking News at 11. This is what happens when there is no outline or plan and you just make up **** as you go along.
Quote:
Originally Posted by shredder75 View Post
We can tell our great grandchildren, "In my day, our cloaks were so sensitive that even dialogue broke them and we couldn't change our clothes!"
Captain
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 3,125
# 29
05-27-2013, 05:17 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sethketa View Post
Star Trek Online is quickly becoming a game that sacrifices gameplay, and actual sense, in the name of profit. Is that something we should be supporting? Or should we try to convince Cryptic that they're making a mistake before they bleed out more and more casual players that simply cannot keep up with purchasing more and more ships, while having their old purchases become obsolete and worthless?

EDIT: Also ask yourself a very important question. How long has Star Trek Online been out? Has Cryptic ever done a balance pass? Have they ever altered the stats on a ship to bring it in line with other ships? Or have they simply released new ships that are superior to the older ships? Is this a healthy business model? Is this a business model you want to support?
indeed, and its a shame given the visuals this game has, especially since this latest expansion.
but its not like a 'balance pass'(wat?) is going to fix it.
i just got my mogai, completely nothing to do with what is on-screen kilometer across ship that turns so fast one wing goes in reverse...

doesnt effect me so much, since i done pvp in cheese, but its still anoying as hell seeing so many functions be so out of whack.

problem is though, if they did actually fix the game, as is fundamentally needed...
the forum would get a biblical flood of tears from all the crying about "nerfs" to people who had invested time and effort in the current interlaced mess of cheese to make builds that are cheese, because, thats just what you do to play this game.

was going to throw 30 or 40 bucks on my rom toon... then saw the stats & decided the money i spent on my first two is more than enough.
as it turns out, an intrepid would lose a fight with a connie.
and thats canon.
! the power of plot compels you.
Career Officer
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 3,926
# 30
05-27-2013, 05:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickngo View Post
The T'Varo is just a Defiant with EBC, something that Feds have been agitating for for years. Right now on the PvP threads, the Feds are QQ'ing because now, they have to face it in the FvF ques.

Let us NOT follow their example.
defiant doesnt have battle cloak so its not as able as the t'varo to sneak in attack with the buff from the cloak. the other side of the issue is the reman playable trait which makes it all the much more easier as a t'varo captain
Joined STO late 2010. Bought starter pack LoR & LTS 2013.
Proud owner of a Targ pup to a federation character.
T5 Miranda FTW! Hope to see Miranda Class made a T5 ship.
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