Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,691
# 31
05-26-2013, 11:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by antoniosalieri View Post
Not to change the topic... but the feds didn't not have cloak due to some moral imperative. They had no cloak because they signed a treaty with the Romulans......
That treaty was the in-world excuse. The real reason it got into the canon bible that feds can never have cloak was:

A) Gene thought real heroes don't go sneaking around.
B) CBS agreed with Gene on that.

So yeah, no cloaking feds works when its a fed centered story, but when you make it into a game and the cloakers are not just baddie NPCs... problems can arise. Mainly in that not everyone that might enjoy casual PvP is going to want to deal with excessive cloaking. Its a matter of taste and if its forced on people they will simply leave. Others will stick to it and thrive. Unfortunately if the pattern seen on most games and indeed Cryptic's own Champions Online, then stealthers will indeed be the cause of a lot of player antipathy towards PvP.

Honestly I do not know what a fix would be, any mechanic that would make cloak less effective would further degrade cloak's questionable utility in PvE for the sake of PvP, something Cryptic is very loath to do. Perhaps the tailpipe console can become a passive ability and make all torps stealth seekers? But then cloaking would become too situational.

Its quite a conundrum indeed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sorceror01 View Post
....you are a bad starship captain and you should feel bad.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tachyonharmonic View Post
However, I think with regard to the Romulan Republic player characters/npcs, it all comes down to a finite point:

These are not the Romulans from the shows.

Last edited by skyranger1414; 05-26-2013 at 11:51 AM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 638
# 32
05-26-2013, 12:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by skyranger1414 View Post
Honestly I do not know what a fix would be, any mechanic that would make cloak less effective would further degrade cloak's questionable utility in PvE for the sake of PvP, something Cryptic is very loath to do.
The solution is easy, and the original developers were smart enough to implement it: Don't allow battlecloaking.

Regular cloaks give you only the initial alpha, after that you are essentially forced to stay in the fight or leave your team hanging for an extended period of time because you need to get far away and out of red alert to recloak. And the only battlecloaking ship back then, the BoP, had massive penalites (paper-thin hull and shields, loss of a weapon slot and BO station) to compensate for its abilities.

In my opinion the primary reason for the decline in FvK was not cloak. It was carrier spam and, at a later point, annoying consoles (aceton assimilators, grav pulse, the original leech, theta vent).
http://hilbertguide.com
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 5,246
# 33
05-26-2013, 12:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mancom View Post
In my opinion the primary reason for the decline in FvK was not cloak. It was carrier spam and, at a later point, annoying consoles (aceton assimilators, grav pulse, the original leech, theta vent).
I agree with Hilbert here. When I choose to go FvK on a Fed, I don't care about cloaking, that can be handled, expected, and understood.

What gets annoying is when all I see is the pain in the butt consoles, in particular Grav pulse, and deal with things like Siphon drones, then it just gets on my nerves and I don't feel like doing that, including even queuing up as a Klingon if all my teammates will do is all that junk.



Besides, eventually Romulans will fly lockbox ships just like everyone else.

Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,753
# 34
05-26-2013, 07:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by vitzh View Post
Honestly, did nobody see this coming? We all pointed out this is what would happen yet people refused to listen. You just made two factions pretty much the same and this is what you get. Boring, repetitive gameplay with no real distinction between any side. Congrats.
Saw it comming just like everyone else. In fact some saw it comming when FvF was created and why.
They reap what they have sown and have created in themselves that which they villiafied in us.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,753
# 35
05-26-2013, 08:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by redsnake721 View Post
Why?
Because it gives Fed another choice besides having to deal with all the crutch build KDF teams?
I remember when there was only F vs K and a lot of PVP'rs stopped playing PVP because they got sick of the way the Klingon premades and pugs would play.
I could go on and on giving examples of the things that the Klingons do or did that drove Fed players out of the queue's, or caused them to demad F vs F so that they could finally enjoy PVP and not have to deal with the Klingon players and thier "I win" button ships and less than honorable tatics.

Since then the 2 Factions have become more and more simmilar in abilities and equipment some of it has died down, but there are still some Klingon premades and players that rely solely on cheese and spam to win and it keeps many Fed players from F vs K queue's permanently.

I all boils down to Fed teams that really wanted good (fair) PVP couldent get it in the old F vs K queues.
When your fighting vs an enemy that has abilites/gear/tatics that there is no defence against and it ends up being just a big spawn camp there is no reason to ever enter that queue again.

So Cryptic adding F vs F was one of the few good decisions they made. At the time it was introduced it saved a lot of players from leaving the game to find better more balanced PVP.
Funny. When the FvF que was demanded the Klinks didnt have anything but cloaks and the VoQ. In fact they had just been slightly nerfed becuase of thier better PvP apsects and the feds started.getting better ships to boot as well. It was the begining of the KDF dark days and the feds getting a lot of content. Many former KDF pvpers actually went fed because of those ships being considered better than the KDF counterparts. I remember those KDF players hiding in cloak in matches to out wait the feds becuase the feds where kicking thier butts handily in the arena's. I remember the fedballs and carrier pet bitchfests. I remember the still elite PvP fleets that ruled the Arenas like SadPandas and TSI before it was even TSI.
Your story of FvF existing becuase of morally right reasons of fair play is a fairy tale meant to bolster those same players whom thought they should have been kirks then and still wish to be kirks now when fighting in pvp.

FvF was created to massage wounded egoes and still the outcries of "unfair" made by children whom could not handle a PvP experience that showrd themselves less capable than they thought they should have performed. FvF was created to keep the Kirks happy because regardless of how well the feds could do in PvP with a good team, fed pugs sucked fighting against Klingons hence FvF was created to help thier wounded egeos when couldnt hack fighting us.

It was bad times for all but cant be blaimed soley on the KDF. The feds need to be honest with themselves before they just make us KDF out to be the boogymen again. We where not then or are we now.
To be honrst those KDF hardcore fans back then knew almost everyone that was a good PvPer by name and most other KDF fans as well.
PvP was all we had to do with little filler content and most of us knew each other, so it was little surprise we tended to lose to the organized fed premades but stomp fed pugs.
Still not our fault and as I said before , all we had was cloak and no other cheese, plus our desire to shoot feds.
It was only the wimps I remember asking for a fed only que.

Last edited by bitemepwe; 05-26-2013 at 08:15 PM.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,753
# 36
05-26-2013, 08:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by crimisi View Post
Says you. I remember klinks would stay cloak until all the feds warped out due to boredom and the klinks would call VICTORY! meh.

Then again this was pre-carrier days. When they put up fvf I heavy reduced my fvk play time due to this reason. The only time I did fvk was in the kiddy pool.
Alot of klingon players didnt think they could compete against a fed team back then. Many wimped out (imo) and hid rather than fight. It was a disgrace.
Captain
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 858
# 37
05-27-2013, 02:19 AM
if FvF is faction vs faction, Then its already pooly designed.


I havent done pvp yet, but from what i hear its vastly unbalanced, and poorly designed.

I think this is largely due to the DPS output of Cannons, they need a larger Cd.
like 4-6 seconds.

Atm, Cannons are dealing 3k Dps, while beams are holding 1000 dps, This is
just plane retarded, Now i think beams in general need a buff (through mechanic
reward on Single beams to behing high burst damage, low cool down high arc).

But i think all weapons should settle in the 1750-2000 dps range
Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 366
# 38
05-27-2013, 04:51 AM
Venting time, pt.2

I did yeasterday a FvF Arena, as lt. cmdr. And I was flying the only not cloaking ship, everyone else was in Warbirds.

How the match looked like from my perspective? It was more or less so: I got to the center, rest of team cloaked around me. Setting up minefields and such, going EPtA and sensor scan to get someone. Then the guys are comming into my range, I pop up HYT and fire. In most cases it does nothing (HYR1).

Then they decloak, Alpha me. I'm hitting respawn. There is some fun I can watch from distance. When I get back, anyone is either dead or bakc in cloak waiting for the rest of the team to come to hunt down the flying target (me) or to kill the hunters.

If you count in that non of Warbirds is really prepared to be support ship so the chance to get any buff is zero and I can hope for ST if I'm lucky then you have the picture.

Now, I had to do it 8 times as we lost 13/15 with me being 8 of those deads, all by decloaking alphas by 3-5 enemy players. You got the picture of how much "fun" the Fed vs Fed currently is.

After that match I put the STO aside for the rest of the day. I'm pretty used to alphas from my times in Ker'rat and FvK. But there is difference between having like 20% of chance of being a target and some chance of getting support and being the only visible target and no chance of getting any sort of support.

Ok, I vented a little, need to return to work.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 507
# 39
05-27-2013, 05:19 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by zarathos1978 View Post
Venting time, pt.2

I did yeasterday a FvF Arena, as lt. cmdr. And I was flying the only not cloaking ship, everyone else was in Warbirds.

How the match looked like from my perspective? It was more or less so: I got to the center, rest of team cloaked around me. Setting up minefields and such, going EPtA and sensor scan to get someone. Then the guys are comming into my range, I pop up HYT and fire. In most cases it does nothing (HYR1).

Then they decloak, Alpha me. I'm hitting respawn. There is some fun I can watch from distance. When I get back, anyone is either dead or bakc in cloak waiting for the rest of the team to come to hunt down the flying target (me) or to kill the hunters.

If you count in that non of Warbirds is really prepared to be support ship so the chance to get any buff is zero and I can hope for ST if I'm lucky then you have the picture.

Now, I had to do it 8 times as we lost 13/15 with me being 8 of those deads, all by decloaking alphas by 3-5 enemy players. You got the picture of how much "fun" the Fed vs Fed currently is.

After that match I put the STO aside for the rest of the day. I'm pretty used to alphas from my times in Ker'rat and FvK. But there is difference between having like 20% of chance of being a target and some chance of getting support and being the only visible target and no chance of getting any sort of support.

Ok, I vented a little, need to return to work.
Like I said and we've all said, you got what you asked for. You encouraged Cryptic to be lazy and feed you rubbish, to destroy unique gameplay and to just copy and paste content. This is what you get and what you deserve. Personally I preferred this game a lot better a year ago and feel it's gone downhill dramatically since then, becoming this mesh of bland boring nonsense using shinnies to distract you from the real problems.
KDF Future with Cryptic. Fact.

What Cryptic should consider before releasing anything.
Ensign
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 4
# 40
05-27-2013, 06:16 AM
Step 1: Stop Whining

Step 2: Get out of your PvE glass cannon. Cloak is obviously the perfect counter to a pew pew paper airplane

Step 3: Equip TBR & Viral Matrix

Step 4: Have an entire row set to shield regen/resistance

Step 5: Find a friend and have him do the same

Step 6: Sit in the middle and wait for the first unlucky sucker to decloak


From a fed pilot who cares


Ps. There is no flying away when all of your subsystems have been disabled
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