Captain
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 2,368
# 1 The Pegasus Problem
05-26-2013, 02:19 PM
In TNG's episode "The Pegasus", it is revealed that the UFP has cloaking technology exceeding that of the Romulans and Klingons advancing (shakily) into phasing technology. This violated a treaty with the Romulan government. The exact fallout of the revelation of this technology, except that the Romulan government was to be informed and that Admiral Pressman and key individuals were arrested, is not discussed onscreen.

Where does that leave us in light of the new revelations regarding Romulans? It might be said that the Romulan government of the treaty no longer exists. That the Tal Shiar-based group is a derivative and not the authentic original. Likewise the Republic. That being the case, could the UFP not declare the agreement obsolete, null and void?

With decades to potentially refine the technology, at least to understand what might happen from ones enemies, at most to prepare for the day when they could use it again, the phasing technology could become a game changer. Certainly the cloaking technology would regardless of whether phasing technology ever stabilized.

So will STO do an almighty hand-waving retcon and say the tech never existed, or will there be an address to the situation in days to come?
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 4,052
# 2
05-26-2013, 02:22 PM
From "The Path to 2409" Year 2395

Tragedy struck for Starfleet on Stardate 72487.91, when the U.S.S. Kelso was lost with all hands.
The Kelso was supposed to be on a routine mission to study the long-term effects of the Hobus supernova on star systems in the Devron Sector when it was destroyed.
Initial reports indicated that the Kelso could have come under attack. However, when the remains of the vessel were recovered by the U.S.S. April, it was found that a coolant leak caused by an experimental cloaking device onboard the Kelso caused plasma to vent from the ship. The plasma reacted with ionizing radiation present in
the area, causing the explosion which destroyed the Kelso.
After careful consideration, Captain Barax Wenn of the April revealed the cause of the Kelso's destruction to the captains of the Romulan ships assisting in the search for the vessel. In response, Praetor Taris lodged an immediate complaint with the Federation Council, and, as a "gesture of good faith," informed the Klingon Empire of the details of the Kelso's destruction as well.

Starfleet Security admitted that the U.S.S. Kelso was testing a Federation cloaking device. The Romulans then ejected all Federation diplomats and ships from their space in protest, and Chancellor J'mpok recalled the Klingon ambassador to the Federation back to Qo'noS for "strategic discussions."
After the revelation that Starfleet was testing a cloaking device, tensions between the Federation, Romulans and Klingons were at their highest point since the destruction of the Romulan homeworld in 2387.
After a full inquiry, six members of Starfleet Security were court-martialed.
It took three months for Federation President Aennik Okeg to convince the Romulans and the Klingons to send representatives to a summit to discuss the situation. When the meeting finally began, Okeg made the Federation's position clear.
He apologized for the experiments into cloaking technology, and said that he had signed an executive order banning all research into or creation of Federation cloaking technology.
"The narrow legal view may be that the Treaty of Algeron ended when Romulus was destroyed," Okeg said. "The Romulan Star Empire we knew is gone, and you are a new people. What has not changed is the Federation's commitment to peace."

I think this pretty much covers it.
Also, the Romulans developed a similar technology on their own (TNG:"The Next Phase") and it appears they weren't exactly happy with the results of their technology either.
Maybe this phase/interphase stuff was a dead end?

Last edited by misterde3; 05-26-2013 at 02:26 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,005
# 3
05-26-2013, 03:06 PM
Here's the text on the Defiant-R and Galaxy-X's cloaking console:

"The Treaty of Algeron, signed in 2311 by the Romulan Star Empire and the United Federation of Planets, prohibited Federation cloaking devices. This agreement has been a source of controversy in Starfleet, where some officers believed it severely limited tactical options and put the Federation at a disadvantage.

Although the Federation initially agreed to follow the treaty after the destruction of the Romulan homeworld, in early 2409 Starfleet was authorized to develop and implement cloaking technology on selected ships."

From the game itself, the Federation is currently no longer abiding by the Treaty of Algeron.

However, the phasing cloaking device wouldn't really be a great gameplay mechanic. Collision in space isn't a huge issue, and being able to fly through asteroids and other space debris would only let you see the reverse side of textures (either a mirror image, or completely transparent). In practice, having phasing as a mechanic just would not work and/or even add much at all to the game.

It could pop up in a story mission about the tech, but not as a player ability.

Last edited by thratch1; 05-26-2013 at 03:11 PM.
Career Officer
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Posts: 301
# 4
05-26-2013, 03:37 PM
The closest any ship gets to that technology is the Fek'lhri Kar'Fi Battle Carrier http://sto.gamepedia.com/Kar%27Fi_Battle_Carrier as it has a Phase Shift Generator.

Sig by my better half.
Captain
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 2,368
# 5
05-26-2013, 05:37 PM
Thank you for the responses. I'm not sure how I missed the Path to 2409 stuff but its good to know.

In summation from what I've seen so far, it appears that (chronologically):

2311 - Treaty of Algeron results in no Fed cloaks
2387 - Romulus, and thereby its government, destroyed
2395 - Kelso destroyed in cloaking test. UFP president Aennik Okeg signs executive ban on UFP cloaking technology, to pacify KDF and Romulan forces.
by 2409 - UFP and KDF at war...again.
2409 - UFP authorizes development of cloaking technology on select ships.


So if I have this right, once the war started, Aennik Okeg's "commitment to peace" was revealed to be rather hollow, and the court-martialed Star Fleet officers have received some justification for their viewpoint, at least.


I do agree the phasing technology might be difficult to render competently in STO. I've not flown the Defiant-R, nor the Galaxy-X so I have no reference on their cloaking tech, but I'm curious why the limitation on cloaked UFP ships. "In for a penny, in for a pound" as it were.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
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# 6
05-26-2013, 05:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by steamwright View Post
I do agree the phasing technology might be difficult to render competently in STO. I've not flown the Defiant-R, nor the Galaxy-X so I have no reference on their cloaking tech, but I'm curious why the limitation on cloaked UFP ships. "In for a penny, in for a pound" as it were.
I don't mind a limited selection of Federation ships that can cloak. At the end of the day, cloaks that aren't battle cloaks aren't really that big of a deal for the game, especially in PVE.

In PVP, the biggest selling point of Battle Cloaks is popping Evasive Maneuvers and cloaking to get out of a hairy situation. The only things cloaking devices really punish are solo PVP'ers -- I can't tell you how many times I've seen someone attack a seemingly lone KDF cruiser, only for a bunch of Raptors or BoPs to decloak and blast the attacker to bits. Safety in numbers is key to places like Ker'rat.

What I do take issue with is that the cloaking devices aren't innate abilities to the Defiant-R and Galaxy-X. I'd love to see them become integrated abilities again -- the Galaxy-X could swap its Cloaking Console for a Phaser Lance console, essentially just flipping the abilities. The Defiant-R could replace its current Cloaking console with some other ability, perhaps playing off of the theme of it having too large a core for a ship its size: Maybe a toggle ability that increases power to some systems, at the cost of slowly degrading its Hull, with a cutoff at 50% health or something. It's like it's shaking itself apart with its core at maximum power or something.

The end goal being, Federation players should just have the option of a cloaking-capable ship that doesn't use up a console slot. No other cloaking ship in the game besides the two Federation ships needs to use a console slot just to cloak.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
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# 7
05-26-2013, 05:54 PM
The PT2409 agreement is not hollow. As a storyline narrative it existed as history before the AGTx and cloaking Defiant.
Both the AGTx and cloaking Defiant exist ingame as those "specific" ships mentioned since the Devs added them to the game at the behest of the playerbase.
The history of PT2409 covers thier existance yet does not open the doors for willy nilly fed cloaking.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
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# 8
05-26-2013, 06:35 PM
phase cloaking is in the game already ...

console on the D?ridthau Warbird Battle Cruiser

Quote:
This ship comes equipped with a universal Molecular Phase Inverter console. The Molecular Phase Inverter can be activated to shift your ship out of phase for a limited time, drastically increasing its Defense and Damage Resistance and allowing it to pass through other ships. In addition, the ship's turn rate and speed is increased during while this console is active. The ship's Cloaking Device can still be utilized while the Molecular Phase Inverter is active. This console can be used on any Romulan Warbird.
12th Fleet
Rear Admiral , Engineering Division
U.S.S. Sheffield N.C.C. 92016
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,005
# 9
05-26-2013, 06:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rrincy View Post
phase cloaking is in the game already ...

console on the D?ridthau Warbird Battle Cruiser
Nice catch.
Captain
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Posts: 1,035
# 10
05-26-2013, 09:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by thratch1 View Post
However, the phasing cloaking device wouldn't really be a great gameplay mechanic. Collision in space isn't a huge issue, and being able to fly through asteroids and other space debris would only let you see the reverse side of textures (either a mirror image, or completely transparent). In practice, having phasing as a mechanic just would not work and/or even add much at all to the game.
The phasing cloak in the game is more limited then you think. It's not going to allow player's to move through any of the map objects (i.e. asteroids, planets, etc). BEcaue one teh cloak is off, the player is now stuck inside of the object. And the player is all but immune to weapon fire, and the player can fire freely through the object their are stuck in.
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