Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,627
# 21
05-31-2013, 07:15 PM
they really should just nerf the crap out of cross healing, its turned pvp into an absurd joke, and marginalized so many things. with it, steady damage automatically does not work, its beyond me why there is both steady damage and cross healing. pick one, make all damage spiky and front loaded, or make cross healing a shadow of its former self.

most of all cross healing makes organized teams too much more powerful then a pug, and drives away potential players. a lot of people wont be inclined to organize, or know how, and that makes pvp unapproachable for a large number of people. the VAST majority dont want to pvp, because they cant just que up and have fun doing it. not when the other team has even the slightest amount of team work. its just asking to much from the common player, and we can ridicule them as much as we want for it but if we dont have them around there is no more pvp for anyone.

id nerf ES's effect in half, and lower its duration to 15 seconds. also no hull heals can be sent to a target with more then 50% health, and no shield heals will have an effect if the targets shields are above 50% total capacity. no outside heals can repair a ship past 50% in anything. clears can still be cast on others at any time. starships healing, and healing each other, is absurd enough already.

with all the power creep, it makes spike more important. but the biggest reason for that is cross healing present on top of it. it totally negates any built in disadvantage an escort has. if there was not so overpowered cross healing, DPS would actually mater in PVP, and that would be the point of cruisers. escorts couldn't be propped up forever and be as legitimately vulnerable as they should be.

that would not be the end of team play, it just would just deeply cut into the unbreakable heal barrier. a player stuck at 50% health with lots of damage and healing sent to him will be a lot easier to finally finish off then a player sitting at 100% indefinitely thanks to cross heals. most team play i observe is focusing fire and CC, the healers just react on their own.
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Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 308
# 22
05-31-2013, 09:15 PM
This is just tossing an idea out there, but how about making resistances work both ways? By this I mean that a shield at 50% SDR would be healed for only half as much (technobabble: The shield is resistant to all flow of energy, regardless of incoming or outgoing). Hull resistances would be more difficult; perhaps have it use kinetic resistances to resist hull heals, so you have to choose between being hard to heal or take extra torp damage.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 677
# 23
05-31-2013, 09:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ursusmorologus View Post
Cannons do more damage on targets in front of you, beams do more damage to targets around you. If you keep your targets in front of you, CSV and TS will do more actual damage, IE killing them faster.
Well thats a bit of a weird statement as that can be done with both weapons.

Only difference is broadsiding.


For the OP, DPS, spike, whatever you call it. Its at the end all 'DPS'. Its just a term to specify a specific amount of damage calculated per sec.

But that can be a specific time frame, over a whole encounter, etc. The DPS on my bop over 5 seconds is massive, but plummets severely in the other 143542359325 seconds lol.

I dunno but we have 4 facings and a hull to work with, for pure penetration on 1 facing to hull + hull, DHC no doubt. Unless somone can make a broadside boat that penetrates and spikes as much as DHC's? never seen that in my life. (Not that i tried myself tho ;P)
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 259
# 24
05-31-2013, 09:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mreeves7a View Post
This is just tossing an idea out there, but how about making resistances work both ways? By this I mean that a shield at 50% SDR would be healed for only half as much (technobabble: The shield is resistant to all flow of energy, regardless of incoming or outgoing). Hull resistances would be more difficult; perhaps have it use kinetic resistances to resist hull heals, so you have to choose between being hard to heal or take extra torp damage.
Sounds like a nice idea, don't know how it would work in the actual game though.

Also I would like to know how you can get a 18k dps escort build in ISE (without plasma?)?. If it was without plasma, sounds to me like a match with 5 reallly really experinced players debuffing the borg + a lot of cross healing. I think I reached 15k for a CSE once without plasma but that with with beta and CSV, but with that build I definatly know I can get 13k. Ah, also forgot about doffs which can increase damage *facepalm*, okay that does seem quite possible to me then. I never change from my PvP doffs and they are shield and speed only (can't afford those fancy attack pattern doffs), and other than the beta/CSV build I don't really change my PvP builds much, I am quite content with the amount of damage I do atm.

I also believe that FaW is more trouble than its worth against borg, since you hit borg that almost instantly regerate a great deal of the time. I have seen those Jem'Hadar crusiers constantly hitting 13k or so in ISE though, I have heard 18k once.

Starfleet M.A.C.O. KDF Honour Guard
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,630
# 25
05-31-2013, 11:50 PM
I have gotten to the 18k in pretty much a pvp setup... well ya it is my pvp setup.

Believe it or not thats running a photon and an overload. lol

The key to racking it up honestly is just going fast. I know that sounds obvoius and stupid. lol

Really though to get over 12k all the time just get right in everythings face like .5k and don't hold back on any buffs ever. With projectiles you can't afford to miss a doff proc which is one reason its nice to have a photon.... they do 90% of the quantum dmg anyway but do have more DPS over a match for sure.

I don't run my parser very often anymore... but I should fire it up for my Rom... Something tells me my Rom wtih no rep is putting out much higher dps then my fully geared bug.
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Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 259
# 26
06-01-2013, 12:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by antoniosalieri View Post
I have gotten to the 18k in pretty much a pvp setup... well ya it is my pvp setup.

Believe it or not thats running a photon and an overload. lol

The key to racking it up honestly is just going fast. I know that sounds obvoius and stupid. lol

Really though to get over 12k all the time just get right in everythings face like .5k and don't hold back on any buffs ever. With projectiles you can't afford to miss a doff proc which is one reason its nice to have a photon.... they do 90% of the quantum dmg anyway but do have more DPS over a match for sure.

I don't run my parser very often anymore... but I should fire it up for my Rom... Something tells me my Rom wtih no rep is putting out much higher dps then my fully geared bug.
Well, very nice, but yeah I play in the borgs face as well with buff slaming when they come up (mostly), I hold back a little bit, perhaps I should change that. I have been a little light on the parser lately also, I only keep it to test new stuff or monitor someone if they make a build change or something. I basically never use kenetic weapons (other than cutting beam), from what you just told me (~90% of quatum spike) I definatly agree, I saw someone do tests with photons that determined they worked a lot better than quatums with the doff aswell.

Starfleet M.A.C.O. KDF Honour Guard
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 749
# 27
06-01-2013, 01:57 AM
I've got a rather nice broadside boat at the moment that does solid dps. It's got some spike damage in the form of a single fore cluster torp launcher, but the rest is beams. Mostly.

FORE: 3x Fleet Polaron Beam Array mk XII [acc]x2 [dmg]x2, 1x breen cluster torpedo.
AFT: 2x Fleet Polaron Beam Array mk XII [acc]x2 [dmg]x2, 1x Romulan Cloaking Tractor Beam Mines, 1x Borg Kinetic Cutting Beam.

I run it with the 2 piece mk XII jem'hadar set on the tal shiar cruiser, with 3 XII blue polaron tac consoles, various universals (Tachyokinetic, leech, borg console), and a tactical focused boff setup (APO3, DPB2, TT2x2, Target Shields1 x2) that serves to strip my enemy's shield facings down while allowing me to deal solid damage to them. DPB2 and the tractor mines can snare an enemy pretty well, but I also run tractor beam 3 to hold them in place once I get their shields down. Then the 5 beams + KCB can do their job, and once they're sufficeintly low health, I hit them with the cluster to finish them off.


This build doesn't always work- nothing's a sure thing in STO, and has the usual pitfalls against cross healing or the like, but it is very solid. I've fought a JHAS piloted by House of Beautiful Orions captain and won, three or four times (would have been a fifth, but he ran off the one time and didn't come back), and I've tested it in and out of PVP.

I've seen other beam boats that work well too- the fed/kdf 1000 day veteran ship makes a very solid one with the right build, capitalizing on mounting damage and that ideal point when enough of your opponent's buffs are on simultaneous cooldown that you can overload the damage output (not Beam overload, just like, increased I mean) enough to knock him out.


That being said, I wouldn't try to make an offensive beam boat on anything with a turn rate lower than 7- and even with 7, the turn of the tal shiar battleship, I'm still using an RCS thruster mk XII, and the tachyokinetic to augment that turn rate.
Republic Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 358
# 28
06-09-2013, 06:56 AM
One quick fix for PVP would only allow joining of random Qs and stop per-made teams for Qing.

Do we want more people to get smashed by the few or the many to have more fun.
Captain
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 3,328
# 29
06-09-2013, 07:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by blakes7tvseries View Post
One quick fix for PVP would only allow joining of random Qs and stop per-made teams for Qing.

Do we want more people to get smashed by the few or the many to have more fun.
thats not as quick a fix as you think.

and even then, you are barring people from playing with their friends in the teams they practised.
as it turns out, an intrepid would lose a fight with a connie.
and thats canon.
! the power of plot compels you.
Captain
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 3,310
# 30
06-09-2013, 08:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by skollulfr View Post
you are barring people from playing with their friends in the teams they practised.
private matches, synchronized queue up

did it in swg for years.

the only missing link swg did not have that i i would like to see added here is...

Arena (Group only)
Arena (solo queue only)

Meaning to get into the first you must be in a group, say 3 minimum
To get into the second, you either must be solo or maybe a duo.


premade vs pug needs to stop. its bad for pvp no matter what the game is.
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Last edited by rylanadionysis; 06-09-2013 at 08:53 AM.
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