Career Officer
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 389
# 1 KDF needs a 5 tac Raptor
06-01-2013, 08:11 AM
The Feds have the Tactical Escort Retrofit. The Rommies have the Fleet ha'feh, with 5 tac consoles *and* battle cloak. It's time for the KDF to have a access to a raptor with 5 tactical consoles.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 5,320
# 2
06-01-2013, 09:18 AM
Well any 5 tac-console escort ship would be nice at this point. Fleet Guramba, a raptor, anything.

Republic Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,877
# 3
06-01-2013, 10:40 AM
Fleet Pach would be my choice! I would fly one and buy the Pujyaq just for the skin! Give it a Ensign Sci since already have raptors with Eng and Tac ensigns...
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,119
# 4
06-01-2013, 12:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mimey2 View Post
Well any 5 tac-console escort ship would be nice at this point. Fleet Guramba, a raptor, anything.
A bonafide, 5 TAC Guramba would cause a serious s**tstorm in the KDF ranks if that happens. And I mean that in a positive way. When the Fleet shipyard system was introduced, there were alot of pleas for a Fleet Guramba.

The KDF Raptor / Destroyer line used to be quite on par with the Fed equivalents, but the Fleet System and the introduction of the markedly superior Fed Fleet Escorts quickly overshadowed them. KDF Battlecruisers are trying to take up the slack, but it's quite not on the same level as a dedicated Escort. BOPs are out there, but they are terrible for sustained combat. And in certain situations, a BOP's hit & run nature will leave their friends alone as they execute the tactics the ship is designed for.
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 4,469
# 5
06-01-2013, 01:12 PM
Fleet Guramba is destined for that role. With 5 tac.consoles this ship will be sooo sweet!

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Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,025
# 6
06-01-2013, 02:19 PM
Does the 5th console really make that big a difference to justify the number of people who seem so fixated on it? I mean in my (admittedly shallow) testing, that console only added 5.5%, and left the ship short-changed in other stuff in the process; it wasn't enough to justify such extreme 'enthusiasm.'

As for what to mount such a configuration on, I imagine its currently not on any raptors because they didn't want to make the a 5-console + decloak alpha so available. Yes the Defiant can do that, but it pays for it with a wasteful tac ensign and having to spend one of its few remaining console slots on the cloak. The Fleet MVAE has the same wasteful ensign problem, and the Kumari boosts it up to a wasted lieutenant. A new raptor would likely have a better boff layout (since the Fleet Qin already does the tac-ensign thing) and effectively gets an extra console slot anyways due to the built-in cloak. (However big an advantage cloaking may or may not be is a seperate discussion; its an ability that raptors get at no mechanical cost.) If a ship came out with 5 tac consoles, and the free cloak, and a good boff layout, it would be flat-out better than any other KDF tac ship and make the whole rest of the family obsolete. Different is good, but if A is better than B in any situation, thats unbalanced.

Mounting on the Guramba might be a better choice since it doesn't have the cloak or a special console, and it would work well with disruptor lance. The only catch is it has the near perfect boff layout and so would still likely end up flat-out superior.

A new ship might be the best choice, maybe Ferasan or Gorn or something totally new. 5 tac consoles on the Fleet version, no cloak, a 15-16 degree turn rate, a new ship-limited pay-toy console, and maybe the same boff layout as the MVAE (since the KDF is short on science-oriented ships). That would be well balanced against other ships without making anything obsolete, give the KDF a new T5 ship to play with, and allow the 5 tac console layout for those who just can't live without it. I don't see a real downside to that sort of approach.
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 4,469
# 7
06-01-2013, 03:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by reginamala78 View Post
...As for what to mount such a configuration on, I imagine its currently not on any raptors because they didn't want to make the a 5-console + decloak alpha so available. Yes the Defiant can do that, but it pays for it with a wasteful tac ensign and having to spend one of its few remaining console slots on the cloak. The Fleet MVAE has the same wasteful ensign problem, and the Kumari boosts it up to a wasted lieutenant.
Presenting the all new - Fleet Dhelan Warbird Retrofit and Fleet Ha'feh Assault Warbird.
Both come with an built in Romulan battlecloak, 5 tac.consoles and pretty nice Boff layout IMHO. And Romulan decloak alpha is deadlier than Klingon decloak alpha.
Not saying anything pro or against your post, just pointing out that it has already been done.

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Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,119
# 8
06-01-2013, 04:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by reginamala78 View Post
Does the 5th console really make that big a difference to justify the number of people who seem so fixated on it? I mean in my (admittedly shallow) testing, that console only added 5.5%, and left the ship short-changed in other stuff in the process; it wasn't enough to justify such extreme 'enthusiasm.'

As for what to mount such a configuration on, I imagine its currently not on any raptors because they didn't want to make the a 5-console + decloak alpha so available. Yes the Defiant can do that, but it pays for it with a wasteful tac ensign and having to spend one of its few remaining console slots on the cloak. The Fleet MVAE has the same wasteful ensign problem, and the Kumari boosts it up to a wasted lieutenant. A new raptor would likely have a better boff layout (since the Fleet Qin already does the tac-ensign thing) and effectively gets an extra console slot anyways due to the built-in cloak. (However big an advantage cloaking may or may not be is a seperate discussion; its an ability that raptors get at no mechanical cost.) If a ship came out with 5 tac consoles, and the free cloak, and a good boff layout, it would be flat-out better than any other KDF tac ship and make the whole rest of the family obsolete. Different is good, but if A is better than B in any situation, thats unbalanced.

Mounting on the Guramba might be a better choice since it doesn't have the cloak or a special console, and it would work well with disruptor lance. The only catch is it has the near perfect boff layout and so would still likely end up flat-out superior.

A new ship might be the best choice, maybe Ferasan or Gorn or something totally new. 5 tac consoles on the Fleet version, no cloak, a 15-16 degree turn rate, a new ship-limited pay-toy console, and maybe the same boff layout as the MVAE (since the KDF is short on science-oriented ships). That would be well balanced against other ships without making anything obsolete, give the KDF a new T5 ship to play with, and allow the 5 tac console layout for those who just can't live without it. I don't see a real downside to that sort of approach.
The Romulan Warbirds are already quite capable of what you described. They have 5 TAC Console ships, all having at the bare minimum Battle Cloaks. Not to mention the Romulan BOFF traits like Subterfuge to make their decloaking attacks that much deadlier.

The only 5 TAC Console ship the KDF has is the Bortasqu', and even with the LOR update which does help it, it's still not the ideal platform for such offensive strength like a BOP, Destroyer, or Raptor would.

Also, having 5 TAC Console ships helps in rounding out any of the faction fleets. There are ample examples of 5 SCI, ENG, and TAC Consoled ships in Starfleet. The Romulans, though having a smaller ship selection ATM, are capably covered with 5 Consoled ships in all 3 categories. The Klingons? Though having a larger ship selection, and for a ship design that is supposedly offensive oriented, has 1 sluggish Cruiser with a 5 TAC Console layout, a few with 5 ENG Consoles, and no 5 SCI consoled ships. Not one of the carriers are 5 SCI capable, and even the Fleet Veranus, the ONLY truly dedicated Science Vessel of the KDF line, only has 4 SCI consoles.

The Console layout allows something in the ship lineup to be specialists, to put every ounce of being into performing well in that task. The Fleet Defiants, MVAE do that, and they do it very well. 5 ENG Consoles allow that ship to be built tough and / or do great in repairs and such. 5 SCI Consoles allow those Science Vessels to perform SCI abilities to the maximum extent possible. 5 TAC Consoles allow offensive ships to hit the hardest possible way they can.

Right now, the KDF ship lineup is weak. IMHO, the only thing that props the KDF up are the Battlecruisers and Carriers. Birds of Prey have been overtaken with the power creep in all other enemy ships. The Escorts aren't competitive to Starfleet and now Romulan Escorts. The Romulans have a superior Cloaked Torpedo Boat and have easily, handily replaced the B'Rel in that role. Hell, the Fleet T'Varo is a Lv 1 Fleet Shipyard ship, while the Fleet B'Rel requires a Lv 5 Fleet Shipyard, and is still far weaker than the T'Varo.

5 TAC Consoled Escorts / Destroyers in the KDF are needed to prop up the KDF line. For the faction that is supposedly obsessed with "Attack," its ships have been overtaken by the opposition. Even the newest players on the field, the Romulans, are far better in the offensive role, most especially coming out of Cloaks.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 749
# 9
06-01-2013, 05:19 PM
A Fleet Guramba was already confirmed for the KDF in a podcast.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 128
# 10
06-01-2013, 05:27 PM
I had a fifth tactical console space on my bird of prey, once. But I had the space replaced with a nook for the captain's personal supply of bloodwine.

There are priorities in the life before sto'vo'kor!
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