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Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,784
# 21
06-06-2013, 08:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by iskandus View Post
You must have run into an opponent who doesn't know what he was doing. My FBP have routinely killed Escorts who insist on shooting me while it's on, even seeing bug ships one shooting themselves or Minimax aborting his attack because he spotted my FBP.

Just because you escaped once, per your quote that I highlighted, it hardly means the skill is a waste. The way you jump to such conclusion is senseless. Properly spec FB3 can have reflecting factor up to 1.4, possibly more if someone wants to be really nasty about it. That means if you are an escort who delivers an alpha of 30K damage on your opponent in one wave, 42K of damage of will be returnws to you with 50% of it directly going to your hull.

As for the comment that it will just lead to the said escort shooting someone else on the team instead. I don't understand why you put out these senseless comments of poor quality - no reasonable people should be listenting to this kind of BS. You are assuming once the said ship turned on FBP3 that the ship will do nothing else? Really, he is just going to let you get away and shooting someone else. What kind of alternative universe do you live in? I got news for you, if someone is going to spec in FBP somewhere, chances are this ain't the only Sci power he will have. Powers are not meant to be used in isolation. In my Fed toon, the FBP(2) is usually used in conjunction with ES3 + Beam Target Subsystem + Plasmonic Leech + Romulan Hull Melt while shooting weapons with direct or DoT damage that go through shields. The drain on your power system is as high as 109 - no amount of power insulation can shield you completely especially your weaker subsystems and you are guaranteed to crawl like a turtle, not an escort. Trust me, you will be more focused on surviving than having the time to go shooting someone else.
If you think your helping your team at all running FPB 3 you are very very wrong.

It is one of and likely the WORST team skill in the game... Which is run by ships that SHOULD be setup to be the ultimate teammate. For this reason it is pure fail.

Yes I can tell you when I fly my escort... if I see a FPB I 100% ignore that person, I either shoot them anyway if my heals are up... or I simply count it down... when it ends I know you can't use Transfer shield strength... and with out support I will most likely kill you long before your FPB is back up. If you are setup to just tank dmg... well your not really healing anyone and your FPB is the only dmg you have... so yes I'll just kill the team around you.

You won't die much I agree... but who cares you will still end up on the loosing team more often then your on the winning one.

FPB is pure fail. Period.
When the messenger comes to appropriate your profits ... kill the messenger.
Captain
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 1,050
# 22
06-06-2013, 08:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by majortiraomega View Post
Using graviton generator consoles for gravity well is pointless. Cryptic nerfed graviton generators so badly that slotting 3 consoles will give you 1% more repel. You still want the borg assimilated module, the adapted MACO deflector, and 6 points in graviton generators for tractor beams, but anymore than that is a waste currently. What you should do is spec in particle generators, as this is the skill that boosts gravity well's damage. Also be sure to stack particle generator consoles, use 1-2 deflector officers, use 1 gravimetrics scientist, use 1-2 copies of tractor beam, and use your subsystem targetting. If you are in a science vessel capable of running attack pattern omega I, be sure to use it for the decent damage buff to gravity well.

[...]

Unclassified:
Photonic Officer - This ability is currently broken and has a 3 minute cooldown.
Subnucleonic Beam - Captain ability - The best science debuff in the game. Removes all buffs and greatly increases active cooldowns for the duration. - Cleared with science team
Sensor Scan - Captain ability - This ability was quite effective as a damage debuff until Legacy of Romulus broke it. I am assuming cryptic will fix it eventually. - Cleared with science team
Thanks for such a well written and thorough summary. You said it better than I could, saving me from responding to the OP.

I'll add a few comments:

- Caveat with VM is that with LoR, this skill can be render fairly situational due to the possibility that someone can totally spec to neutralize it completely. For example, someone has Weapons Capacitor from their Warp Core + Adapted Maco engine's hot resart + EptA will be pretty much immune to VM compleely. The Weapon capactiors repairs disabled weapon, Engine disable disappear after 1 sec automatically and EPtA will repair disabled Aux. Plus, the need to put 6 points into Decompiler skill is a non-starter or having the need to put 3 system engineering. The investment is too much and too easily countered.

- I run Polarize Hull 2 on my Warbird at Aux = 125. The reason being PH is one of the few skills that can be activated while in cloak and a Warbird with high Defensive value (due to cloak = +50 defense) + high damage resistance will be pretty tanky even if someone managed to break your cloak or the moment you decloak to attack. PH2 on a Fed ship can be less useful. But PH2 on a Warbird who cloaks and decloaks and need to avoid those sudden attack bursts or tractor beams can be justified.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,958
# 23
06-06-2013, 08:19 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by antoniosalieri View Post
Yes I can tell you when I fly my escort... if I see a FPB I 100% ignore that person, I either shoot them anyway if my heals are up... or I simply count it down... when it ends I know you can't use Transfer shield strength... and with out support I will most likely kill you long before your FPB is back up. If you are setup to just tank dmg... well your not really healing anyone and your FPB is the only dmg you have... so yes I'll just kill the team around you.

You won't die much I agree... but who cares you will still end up on the loosing team more often then your on the winning one.

FPB is pure fail. Period.
Actually if one were to run 2x Feedback Pulse and 2x Transfer Shield Strength, they would have a 100% uptime on any one of those abilities. It would be possible to chain it like this: Feedback pulse III for 15 seconds, Transfer Shield Strength III for 15 seconds, Feedback Pulse II for 15 seconds, Transfer Shield Strength III (second copy) for 15 seconds. By that time Feedback Pulse III is off cooldown and the cycle continues. FBP is useful if you have managed to aggro everyone on the other team with your science abilities. It's not too effective if there is a science officer on the other team, but if there isn't a science officer it can be quite deadly. I don't know how often you PvP in Capture and Hold, but the escorts never stop shooting at you when FBP goes up. They always assume they will kill you before FBP kills them. The easiest way to keep them thinking that? Keep your shields at full health but let your health linger at 50%, they can never resist such a tempting target.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 283
# 24
06-06-2013, 08:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by iskandus View Post
You must have run into an opponent who doesn't know what he was doing. My FBP have routinely killed Escorts who insist on shooting me while it's on, even seeing bug ships one shooting themselves or Minimax aborting his attack because he spotted my FBP.
Sometime I keep shooting at FBP just for the lulz, nothing like getting hit by FBP for more than 2x what the hull on my BOP is. Similar to the Cold War mutually assured destruction model.
Nerf Klinks, Buff Rommies
Captain
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 1,050
# 25
06-06-2013, 08:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by antoniosalieri View Post
If you think your helping your team at all running FPB 3 you are very very wrong.

It is one of and likely the WORST team skill in the game... Which is run by ships that SHOULD be setup to be the ultimate teammate. For this reason it is pure fail.
Such a big generic swoop from someone who clearly doesn't know what he is talking about. So FB3 is a Commander level skill, what other "ultimate teammate" skill is being sacrificed as a result? TSS 3? Nope, that's Lt. commander. HE3? Nope, that's Lt. Commander too and a Sci can usually carry two Lt. Commander slots. Science Team? Nope, easily taken care of in either Ensign or Lt. slot. So let me go down the list of skills the can be passed to the team:

Scattering Field? Nope, no conflict due to it being a Captain skill
Science Fleet? Nope, no conflict due to it being a Captain skill
Tractor Beams, including repulsors? Nope, an Ensign or Lt slot would suffice
Sensor Scan? Nope, no conflict due to it being a Captain skill
Scramble / Jam Sensors? Nope, an Ensign or Lt slot would suffice

Keep in mind, a Sci ship typically has 1 Commander Sci station, 1 Lt Commander Sci Station and 1 Lt Sci Station as is the case with Wells.

So I went through the list, not seeing any skill that can be passed on or aiding a teammate that was sacrificed as a result of FB3 so care to enlighten me what I am missing? Wait, just admit you don't know what you are talking about is easier and less painful.


Quote:
Yes I can tell you when I fly my escort... if I see a FPB I 100% ignore that person, I either shoot them anyway if my heals are up... or I simply count it down... when it ends I know you can't use Transfer shield strength...
Assuming of course that person is using FBP1, which no people in their sound mind would use that and without spec the skill properly. And once again, you think wrong. FBP lasts exactly 15 seconds, cannot be more or less. The shared cooldown on TSS is also exactly 15 seconds. So when FBP ends, TSS can be immediately activated, back to back. I don't understand why you operate under all these false and inaccurate information. It tells me you are either bluffing or really clueless, take your pic.

Quote:
and with out support I will most likely kill you long before your FPB is back up. If you are setup to just tank dmg... well your not really healing anyone and your FPB is the only dmg you have... so yes I'll just kill the team around you.
Did you know I enjoyed killing escorts, more than anything else? But I don't launch these bravado all over the place. Once again, you make it sound as though those who use FBP have nothing else going for them - you know nothing like a big fat Transphaic Cluster Torp heading your way while you are being Jam Sensored? While being jam Sensored, a sneaky Tractor Beam has locked you on and you don't even know it? APO? Subnuke takes care of it. The fact is my Fed Sci ship routinely out damage all escorts in arena and c&H pvp maps with only two Tactical slots. Screenshots available upon request. It should say something about the damage a properly spec Sci ship can do.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,735
# 26
06-06-2013, 08:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by iskandus View Post
Such a big generic swoop from someone who clearly doesn't know what he us talking about. So FB3 is a Commander level skill, what other "ultimate teammate" skill is being sacrificed as a result? TSS 3? Nope, that's Lt. commander. HE3? Nope, that's Lt. Commander too and a Sci can usually carry two Lt. Commander slots. Science Team? Nope, easily taken care of in either Ensign or Lt. slot. So let me go down the list of skills the can be passed to the team:

Scattering Field? Nope, no conflict due to it being a Captain skill
Science Fleet? Nope, no conflict due to it being a Captain skill
Tractor Beams, including repulsors? Nope, an Ensign or Lt slot would suffice
Sensor Scan? Nope, no conflict due to it being a Captain skill
Scramble / Jam Sensors? Nope, an Ensign or Lt slot would suffice

Keep in mind, a Sci ship typically has 1 Commander Sci station, 1 Lt Commander Sci Station and 1 Lt Sci Station as is the case with Wells.

So I went through the list, not seeing any skill that can be passed on or aiding a teammate that was sacrificed as a result of FB3 so care to enlighten me what I am missing? Wait, just admit you don't know what you are talking about is easier and less painful.




Assuming of course that person is using FBP1, which no people in their sound mind would use that and without spec the skill properly. And once again, you think wrong. FBP lasts exactly 15 seconds, cannot be more or less. The shared cooldown on TSS is also exactly 15 seconds. So when FBP ends, TSS can be immediately activated, back to back. I don't understand why you operate under all these false and inaccurate information. It tells me you are either bluffing or really clueless, take your pic.



Did you know I enjoyed killing escorts, more than anything else? But I don't launch these bravado all over the place. Once again, you make it sound as though those who use FBP have nothing else going for them - you know nothing like a big fat Transphaic Cluster Torp heading your way while you are being Jam Sensored? While being jam Sensored, a sneaky Tractor Beam has locked you on and you don't even know it? APO? Subnuke takes care of it. The fact is my Fed Sci ship routinely out damage all escorts in arena and c&H pvp maps with only two Tactical slots. Screenshots available upon request. It should say something about the damage a properly spec Sci ship can do.
LMAO.

You're talking down to one of the best players in the game, and certainly someone who has tried a **** ton of builds.

Sit down before you hurt yourself.

And he's right, in a team setting the skill is pure fail. Heals need to go out fast, so you can't have **** putting them on cooldown if possible.


Click here and here if you are interested in learning more about PvP.

Last edited by snoge00f; 06-06-2013 at 11:19 AM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,735
# 27
06-06-2013, 08:40 AM
And on that Comm Sci note, GW3 is ****ing hilarious to use with a lot of holds and junk flying. I almost traveled back in time to 2011 with all of the GWs all over the place.


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Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,400
# 28
06-06-2013, 08:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by antoniosalieri View Post
Scramble Sensors.
Scramble still highly annoying... again super situational. Most people that run this tend to want to just spam it... if you use it in a smart way... and scramble healers just as spikes are coming on there team mates ect... it WILL get your team kills.
Exactly.

I think a lot of people see the cooldown is clear and then fire it off with no real thought to what they want it to do.

As you stated, scrambling enemy healers is one good use.

Scrambling enemy Alphas is another.


Quote:
Originally Posted by antoniosalieri View Post
Viral Matrix
Plain and simple one of the best anti escort skills there are.
Yep.

I think this is another power where people just expect to click one button and totally ruin some other players day and serve them up on an instant kill platter.

It needs to be used as part of your overall escort control strategy, it's a piece of the puzzle and not the entirety of it.



Quote:
Originally Posted by majortiraomega View Post
Actually if one were to run 2x Feedback Pulse and 2x Transfer Shield Strength, they would have a 100% uptime on any one of those abilities.
Ok, a couple of things.

Having "one or the other" up all of the time is kind of meaningless. neither of these powers is intended, or should be, just rotated perpetually.

He already covered that when he stated "sci powers are situational".

1) TSS is a heal, you need to use it on others a lot. You can't use TSS when you have FBP active.

Coincidentally when your FBP is up, your opponents will now switch targets to your teammates who you are now unable to give TSS.

Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,958
# 29
06-06-2013, 08:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ussultimatum View Post
Ok, a couple of things.

Having "one or the other" up all of the time is kind of meaningless. neither of these powers is intended, or should be, just rotated perpetually.

He already covered that when he stated "sci powers are situational".

1) TSS is a heal, you need to use it on others a lot. You can't use TSS when you have FBP active.

Coincidentally when your FBP is up, your opponents will now switch targets to your teammates who you are now unable to give TSS.
I am not talking about a team arena team vs team. Of course FPB would be a bad choice in such a match, you have a team to heal you. Now in capture and hold, it's rare to get a team that actually heals. Most players don't even bother trying to take zones in there. And the average escort in Capture and Hold is fairly easy to kill with a science vessel when they aren't running away with EPtE/Evasives/Omega. Now the problem arises when you are alone taking zones while your team is off on a far corner of the map fighting a pointless battle and two or more escorts decide to take you out. Fighting two escorts alone with a science vessel is easiest when you are chaining feedback pulse and transfer shield strength. It gives you time to drop romulan hyper plasma torpedoes and chroniton mines to kill them...assuming they don't do that for you when shooting though FBP.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 130
# 30
06-06-2013, 09:00 AM
I just had a idea for FBP

Why not make it feed back heals

Making the healer the pinnacle in the team bouncing off heals for double the strength.
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Last edited by paradise1killer; 06-06-2013 at 09:03 AM.
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