Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,416
# 31
06-03-2013, 01:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickngo View Post
5-15% is viable-though I'd personally prefer a range of 1-5% instead, giving the EPTA at ensign level a short-range, Lt. level range out to tractor-beams, and LTC level range out to raw engagement (aka 10K) so a 3/5/10 is reasonable-reason being, if you've got your sound set up right, at 10K you can hear a cloaker buffing (or you could, before EPtA made that redundant) and ready your buffs/tractor-beams. (i.e. the power doesn't substitute for skill, it enhances it and gives you the ability to shoot first at a target with no shields-which even a Sci ship SHOULD be able to get a kill doing...)

THAT would put it back into the realm of "Skill" instead of "Gear".

(for those that don't know how to detect a cloaker without magic-scaled EPtA, you turn off the music and ambient noise on your sound control-that leaves you the 'sound effects' active without a bunch of ear-deadening static. Buffs, and decloaks, make certain specific sounds...in a way, it really IS like hunting subs. the technique was developed in KvK, a few fed players know it, now everyone who can read should be able to catch me on the approach, even without Aux powers...)
im saying the 5-15% added only to the base before other possible bonuses. so itll only really benifit sci ships. also, you have to remember that very few sci ships have access to high level engineering slots and when they do that taking a skill like that isnt very balanced against the other choices. maybe even something like 3%/6%/9% increase would do the trick (before other bonuses)?
Quote:
Originally Posted by mancom View Post
Frankly, I think the only sound advice that one can give new players at this time is to stay away from PVP in STO.
Science pvp at its best-http://www.youtube.com/user/matteo716
Do you even Science Bro?
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 18,574
# 32
06-03-2013, 01:59 PM
5-15% would be 5-15km.

Each 1% is 1km.

Sci Vessels already benefit (slightly) compared to non-Sci Vessels when it comes to Stealth Detection Rating and Aux Power.

A non-Sci Vessel will get +6 to +52 Stealth Detection Rating based on Aux.
A Sci Vessel will get +18 to +156 Stealth Detection Rating based on Aux.

So at just 130 Aux, no other skills/gear:

Non-Sci Vessel: 5026 StealthSight/Perception
Sci Vessel: 5078 StealthSight/Perception

The Sci Vessel can see about 1km more than the non-Sci Vessel. Bort was open to suggestions about that possibly needing to be buffed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by borticuscryptic View Post
Not a huge bonus. It may need to be improved. We'll see.
Have to take into account everything that can come into play though, eh?

Sensor Skill, Sensor Science Consoles, Sensor Universal Consoles, Sensor Deflector, Sensor Trait, Sensor Scan, Auxiliary Power, Emergency Power to Auxiliary...

There's my WIP Snooper that I parked while working on other things.

750.75 SDR full uptime.
1473.25 SDR for 20s every 2 minutes.

That's just in a MU Deep w/o Nebby consoles.

5375.38 Perception base (2x EPtA1).
5736.63 Perception every 2 minutes for 20 seconds with Sensor Scan.

Fleet Deep w/ 5x Embassy Sensor Probes instead of 4x Mk XIIs, 2pc MACO for the 5% reduction to abilities (including Captain), an Axion Deflector w/ [SciCdr] for another 10% reduction, throw in a TDF Console, and yeah...that's where I was dreaming of going with him as a Snooper...since LoR would make it "valuable" in more than just FvK.
Willard the Rat, Klingon, Sci (60), U.S.S. Tong Vey, Geneva Command Battlecruiser (FT6), Inner Circle
Meena, Ferasan, Tac (60), I.K.S. vagh SuD bas, B'rel Retrofit Bird-of-Prey (T5U), Ho'ragh
[WIP] No-Fleet, T5U B'rel Retrofit Build


Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,416
# 33
06-03-2013, 02:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by virusdancer View Post
5-15% would be 5-15km.

Each 1% is 1km.

Sci Vessels already benefit (slightly) compared to non-Sci Vessels when it comes to Stealth Detection Rating and Aux Power.

A non-Sci Vessel will get +6 to +52 Stealth Detection Rating based on Aux.
A Sci Vessel will get +18 to +156 Stealth Detection Rating based on Aux.

So at just 130 Aux, no other skills/gear:

Non-Sci Vessel: 5026 StealthSight/Perception
Sci Vessel: 5078 StealthSight/Perception

The Sci Vessel can see about 1km more than the non-Sci Vessel. Bort was open to suggestions about that possibly needing to be buffed.



Have to take into account everything that can come into play though, eh?

Sensor Skill, Sensor Science Consoles, Sensor Universal Consoles, Sensor Deflector, Sensor Trait, Sensor Scan, Auxiliary Power, Emergency Power to Auxiliary...

There's my WIP Snooper that I parked while working on other things.

750.75 SDR full uptime.
1473.25 SDR for 20s every 2 minutes.

That's just in a MU Deep w/o Nebby consoles.

5375.38 Perception base (2x EPtA1).
5736.63 Perception every 2 minutes for 20 seconds with Sensor Scan.

Fleet Deep w/ 5x Embassy Sensor Probes instead of 4x Mk XIIs, 2pc MACO for the 5% reduction to abilities (including Captain), an Axion Deflector w/ [SciCdr] for another 10% reduction, throw in a TDF Console, and yeah...that's where I was dreaming of going with him as a Snooper...since LoR would make it "valuable" in more than just FvK.

Maybe non sci ships need to have their base detection reduced a little as well?

So the 1%=1km only applies to ships that are being detected at their 5000 cloak setting? How easy is it to boost stealth? Nearly as easy to boost stealth detection?
Quote:
Originally Posted by mancom View Post
Frankly, I think the only sound advice that one can give new players at this time is to stay away from PVP in STO.
Science pvp at its best-http://www.youtube.com/user/matteo716
Do you even Science Bro?
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 529
# 34
06-03-2013, 03:11 PM
As a PvP veteran player using a B'rel Retrofit and now a fleet version for a long time, i don't mind if they have mutiple abilities that can knock people out of cloak, but i do have a problem with the now Broken/Bugged EPtA ability that renders every1's cloak just about useless especially when a player design their ship for max stealth only to be detected by a player which have no sensor skills and very low aux power using any EPtA.

I tested EPtA I on many of my fleet mates cloak capable ships (the ones with very good stealth builds) on one of my character which have no skills to detect cloaked vessel and set the Auxillary power level's to lowest i can set it, while my fleet mate set there's on max. while testing i can detect my fleet mates B'rel and Fleet dhelan far as over 30-40 km and i detected my one of my fleet mates D'deridex Retrofit as far as 50 km away. i also tested it on Kitomer Space (Elite) and detected Donatra Scimitar every single time i use EPtA I.

If u don't believe me, do ur own testing cause everything i type above is a fact.



- General Yanin Vismitananda / Joined Trill / Fleet B'rel Retrofit / Red Scorpions
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,845
# 35
06-03-2013, 03:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by oakland4life View Post
As a PvP veteran player using a B'rel Retrofit and now a fleet version for a long time, i don't mind if they have mutiple abilities that can knock people out of cloak, but i do have a problem with the now Broken/Bugged EPtA ability that renders every1's cloak just about useless especially when a player design their ship for max stealth only to be detected by a player which have no sensor skills and very low aux power using any EPtA.

I tested EPtA I on many of my fleet mates cloak capable ships (the ones with very good stealth builds) on one of my character which have no skills to detect cloaked vessel and set the Auxillary power level's to lowest i can set it, while my fleet mate set there's on max. while testing i can detect my fleet mates B'rel and Fleet dhelan far as over 30-40 km and i detected my one of my fleet mates D'deridex Retrofit as far as 50 km away. i also tested it on Kitomer Space (Elite) and detected Donatra Scimitar every single time i use EPtA I.

If u don't believe me, do ur own testing cause everything i type above is a fact.



- General Yanin Vismitananda / Joined Trill / Fleet B'rel Retrofit / Red Scorpions
Oakland! Oakland! I've been there.
Leonard Nimoy, Spock.....

R.I.P
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 18,574
# 36
06-03-2013, 03:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by maicake716 View Post
Maybe non sci ships need to have their base detection reduced a little as well?

So the 1%=1km only applies to ships that are being detected at their 5000 cloak setting? How easy is it to boost stealth? Nearly as easy to boost stealth detection?
Well, that 1km Snooper is offset by the 1km Sneaker sort of thing.

Bort's base Sneaker is running 4975 Stealth (no skill/gear and 50 Aux). A person running 50 Aux without any skill/gear in a non-Sci Vessel will have 5010 Perception in comparison. 5010-4975=35/50=0.7...meaning the regular guy could see the base Sneaker at 0.7km.

If that person added in EPtA1, boosting their Perception to 5063, they could them at 1.76km. If the Sneaker added in EPtA1, boosting their Stealth to 5050, they would not be seen until 0.26km. (That's including a +15 Aux for the EPtA1.)

Technically, each 50 pts of Perception or Stealth is 1km. When you subtract Stealth from Perception and have a positive number, that's the distance the Snooper can see the Sneaker. (Perception - Stealth)/50 = distance in km.

From this thread: http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/sh...d.php?t=579331 :we get the following "constants"...so to speak.

Snooper:
Base Perception = 5000
1 Aux (non-Sci) = 0.4 Stealth Detection Rating or 0.2 Perception/StealthSight
1 Aux (Sci) = 1.2 Stealth Detection Rating or 0.6 Perception/StealthSight
1 Starship Sensors = 1.5 Stealth Detection Rating or 0.75 Perception/StealthSight

Sneaker:
Base Stealth = 4925
1 Aux = 1 Stealth
1 Starship Stealth = 0.5 Stealth

So Perception starts higher, Aux favors Stealth, but Starship Sensors > Starship Stealth. Then you get into the various non-Aux/non-Skill gear as well as abilities and what they can do for either.

Here's the Stealth numbers for two of my guys...

Sci in a Hegh'ta
Stealth: 5038.4
Aux: 104
Starship Stealth: 18 (+17.5 from a Deflector)

Sci in a Fleet T'varo
Stealth: 5309.2
Aux: 104
Starship Stealth: 450 (Which is incorrect/bugged...per that thread I linked, Sub is not supposed to stack but it is. They removed the +Stealth stacking when they added the +Def (including +Def stacking). I'm getting 3x Sub +Stealth (Captain & 2x BOFFs).)

With the Hegh'ta, the formulas appear to hold true...roughly. There's likely some rounding that took place here and there, but if you work back with the Starship Stealth and Axu you get 4925.65 - which is near that 4925 base mentioned in the linked thread.

With the T'varo though, it's not that simple. You get 4980.2 instead. Again, there may be some rounding going on...but the rest? Is it because it's an EBC? Because it's a REBC? I don't have a B'rel to test if it's the EBC. Wait, I can check if it's a Romulan thing by looking at his Ha'feh. 5309.2 again...yep, has to be a Romulan thing*. Also, yeah - I could stack a 4th Sub BOFF on the Ha'feh. That's a bug that needs to be addressed as well.

* Something to keep in mind with the Romulan Cloaks is how Singularity Charge affects them. At 5 pips/100 Singularity Charge, you will have -400 Stealth Value. Yep, 5 pips of Singularity eats 400 of your Stealth.
Willard the Rat, Klingon, Sci (60), U.S.S. Tong Vey, Geneva Command Battlecruiser (FT6), Inner Circle
Meena, Ferasan, Tac (60), I.K.S. vagh SuD bas, B'rel Retrofit Bird-of-Prey (T5U), Ho'ragh
[WIP] No-Fleet, T5U B'rel Retrofit Build


Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 164
# 37
06-03-2013, 07:19 PM
Without tossing out a bunch of rant about tactics and strategy - the cloak works fine for me. If the cloak doesn't work, your strategy is off and you are not using it correctly. Think like a Klingon or Romulan and not like a kid trying to have some super invisible super-hero cloak around your shoulders as you accompany Marvel Comics characters into a fantasy rescue . . .
Fazemladaiya - proven to be THE friendliest guy on the gaming forums.
My Graphic Design Specs. Gaming computer specs coming soon once she is built.
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,416
# 38
06-03-2013, 07:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by virusdancer View Post
Well, that 1km Snooper is offset by the 1km Sneaker sort of thing.

Bort's base Sneaker is running 4975 Stealth (no skill/gear and 50 Aux). A person running 50 Aux without any skill/gear in a non-Sci Vessel will have 5010 Perception in comparison. 5010-4975=35/50=0.7...meaning the regular guy could see the base Sneaker at 0.7km.

If that person added in EPtA1, boosting their Perception to 5063, they could them at 1.76km. If the Sneaker added in EPtA1, boosting their Stealth to 5050, they would not be seen until 0.26km. (That's including a +15 Aux for the EPtA1.)

Technically, each 50 pts of Perception or Stealth is 1km. When you subtract Stealth from Perception and have a positive number, that's the distance the Snooper can see the Sneaker. (Perception - Stealth)/50 = distance in km.

From this thread: http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/sh...d.php?t=579331 :we get the following "constants"...so to speak.

Snooper:
Base Perception = 5000
1 Aux (non-Sci) = 0.4 Stealth Detection Rating or 0.2 Perception/StealthSight
1 Aux (Sci) = 1.2 Stealth Detection Rating or 0.6 Perception/StealthSight
1 Starship Sensors = 1.5 Stealth Detection Rating or 0.75 Perception/StealthSight

Sneaker:
Base Stealth = 4925
1 Aux = 1 Stealth
1 Starship Stealth = 0.5 Stealth

So Perception starts higher, Aux favors Stealth, but Starship Sensors > Starship Stealth. Then you get into the various non-Aux/non-Skill gear as well as abilities and what they can do for either.

Here's the Stealth numbers for two of my guys...

Sci in a Hegh'ta
Stealth: 5038.4
Aux: 104
Starship Stealth: 18 (+17.5 from a Deflector)

Sci in a Fleet T'varo
Stealth: 5309.2
Aux: 104
Starship Stealth: 450 (Which is incorrect/bugged...per that thread I linked, Sub is not supposed to stack but it is. They removed the +Stealth stacking when they added the +Def (including +Def stacking). I'm getting 3x Sub +Stealth (Captain & 2x BOFFs).)

With the Hegh'ta, the formulas appear to hold true...roughly. There's likely some rounding that took place here and there, but if you work back with the Starship Stealth and Axu you get 4925.65 - which is near that 4925 base mentioned in the linked thread.

With the T'varo though, it's not that simple. You get 4980.2 instead. Again, there may be some rounding going on...but the rest? Is it because it's an EBC? Because it's a REBC? I don't have a B'rel to test if it's the EBC. Wait, I can check if it's a Romulan thing by looking at his Ha'feh. 5309.2 again...yep, has to be a Romulan thing*. Also, yeah - I could stack a 4th Sub BOFF on the Ha'feh. That's a bug that needs to be addressed as well.

* Something to keep in mind with the Romulan Cloaks is how Singularity Charge affects them. At 5 pips/100 Singularity Charge, you will have -400 Stealth Value. Yep, 5 pips of Singularity eats 400 of your Stealth.
so to begin with you can only see a cloaked target less then 1 km away? O_o then you boost it for every 50 points to get an extra 1 km? hmm....

yeah sure, theres a bunch of powers that can boost steath detection but is there any powers that can boost steath? i know the skill tree has a thing for detection and stealth right?

all i think im trying to say is the inital base detection should be maybe 2-3km instead of the under 1km?
Quote:
Originally Posted by mancom View Post
Frankly, I think the only sound advice that one can give new players at this time is to stay away from PVP in STO.
Science pvp at its best-http://www.youtube.com/user/matteo716
Do you even Science Bro?
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 18,574
# 39
06-03-2013, 08:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by maicake716 View Post
so to begin with you can only see a cloaked target less then 1 km away? O_o then you boost it for every 50 points to get an extra 1 km? hmm....

yeah sure, theres a bunch of powers that can boost steath detection but is there any powers that can boost steath? i know the skill tree has a thing for detection and stealth right?

all i think im trying to say is the inital base detection should be maybe 2-3km instead of the under 1km?
3km for a non-Sci?

So that the Sneaker had to make the investment to drop that to 0?

Subterfuge/Infiltrator Trait...+150 Stealth. There goes the 3km.
Willard the Rat, Klingon, Sci (60), U.S.S. Tong Vey, Geneva Command Battlecruiser (FT6), Inner Circle
Meena, Ferasan, Tac (60), I.K.S. vagh SuD bas, B'rel Retrofit Bird-of-Prey (T5U), Ho'ragh
[WIP] No-Fleet, T5U B'rel Retrofit Build


Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 529
# 40
06-03-2013, 08:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fazemladaiya View Post
Without tossing out a bunch of rant about tactics and strategy - the cloak works fine for me. If the cloak doesn't work, your strategy is off and you are not using it correctly. Think like a Klingon or Romulan and not like a kid trying to have some super invisible super-hero cloak around your shoulders as you accompany Marvel Comics characters into a fantasy rescue . . .
Yea, ur cloak works fine when u spend all of ur time in PvE.

Obviously u have not encounter a PvP player using EPtA, a player that don't even spec their ship to hunt cloaked ships using EPtA 1 can detect ANY ship while in cloak even the ones with the highest stealth skill and max auxillary power.

Fight in enough PvP battles and u will find out some of them are using EPtA that can detect ur ship with x-ray vision like superman way b4 u can do ur alpha strike from ur cloak.

Pro-tip... read the forums more, like the Tribble server June 3rd patch which itself mentions... ''Resolved an issue with Emergency Power to Auxiliary outperforming it?s intended design.'' b4 posting any more comments with no basis.
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