Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 15,495
# 21
06-03-2013, 11:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by iskandus View Post
Once again, it shows Cryptic is unable to fix something without breaking it. Thankfully, it's still on Tribble, not Holodeck. Since this fix isn't working, it likely means it won't be rolled out to the Holodeck anytime soon until they can actually fix it.
Well, hopefully it gets addressed and there's some answer about the Stealth stacking (don't want it to swing the other way either)...have to figure there's going to be a few things done in the next couple of days to have stuff dropped out Thursday for a Holo patch.
I'm just another poster on the forums with my own ideas and opinions.

Captain
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 2,201
# 22
06-03-2013, 11:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by virusdancer View Post
Well, hopefully it gets addressed and there's some answer about the Stealth stacking (don't want it to swing the other way either)...have to figure there's going to be a few things done in the next couple of days to have stuff dropped out Thursday for a Holo patch.
I think they left rommie doffs stackable because a lot of KDF spend big time FC + Dilithium buying several of the embassy doffs.

I only got 1 because of the high cost - like 100k marks and 5 billion dilth - think it would have pissed a lot of people off who bought 2/3/4 of them.
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 4,425
# 23
06-03-2013, 11:57 PM
The QQ about oh no now the perfect cloaks will get us is bs. lol

EPTA was fine before as far as detection went... the issue was it only lasted for 5s

Now it will last for 30s as intended.

I really don't see the issue. I don't think EPTA was ever intended to be the perfect anti cloak skill.

If you honestly want to combat a cloaking team you now want to have a sci anti cloak. EPTA + Sensor Scan + Gravity well / CPB / TBR (to show you where they are) / Mines / Tractor beam / VM... I can go on cause that isn't the half of them.

For Cruisers there is EWP and yes reversing it into someones face is good anti cloak. They can also run EPTA with no real issue.

For escorts its simple... wait for the ambush, tac team evasive omega what ever else you need and start a dog fight with a ship that either has less hull and shield then you or much less turn. Either way you only loose that fight if your outnumbered of just plan bad.

The concerns over cloak are honestly pretty silly.

How ever as a guy that mainly plays cloaking ships... if you feel EPTA is terrible by all means don't run it I won't mind.
Dignity and an empty sack is worth the sack.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,804
# 24
06-04-2013, 12:02 AM
So I did some testing of the Tribble EPTA changes.

With Sensors 9, Com uni console, Sensor Scan, EPTA 1.

I can detect a ship with max stealth at a shade under 11km.

Going to test later with a different setup as a test subject.

But so far, I'm happy with the changes. It seems like I won't have to gimp my setup's healing potential or survivability to detect cloaked ships.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 15,495
# 25
06-04-2013, 12:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by newromulan1 View Post
I think they left rommie doffs stackable because a lot of KDF spend big time FC + Dilithium buying several of the embassy doffs.

I only got 1 because of the high cost - like 100k marks and 5 billion dilth - think it would have pissed a lot of people off who bought 2/3/4 of them.
It came up in the March 8th Tribble Notes thread...

Quote:
Originally Posted by havam View Post
I m curious why was there a need for defense values to be buffed across the board?
Quote:
Originally Posted by borticuscryptic View Post
Whenever we diminish the value of something players have worked hard to earn, we try to compensate whenever possible. In this case, we chose to include a Defense bonus because it is thematically appropriate to the concept of being an elusive target in Space combat.

The changes in this patch both reduce the Stealth values attached to the Subterfuge Trait, and eliminate the stacking of those bonuses. We felt that a small Defense bonus would help mitigate those changes.

What is your specific concern over the Defense bonus? Do you feel that the bonus is too large?
I'm just another poster on the forums with my own ideas and opinions.

Captain
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 2,201
# 26
06-04-2013, 12:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by snoge00f View Post
So I did some testing of the Tribble EPTA changes.

With Sensors 9, Com uni console, Sensor Scan, EPTA 1.

I can detect a ship with max stealth at a shade under 11km.

Going to test later with a different setup as a test subject.

But so far, I'm happy with the changes. It seems like I won't have to gimp my setup's healing potential or survivability to detect cloaked ships.
This is essentially what I said in my other post/thread - Sci should be the only class any good at detecting cloaked ships - and they should be spec'd for it.
Captain
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 1,061
# 27
06-04-2013, 12:12 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by virusdancer View Post
Well, hopefully it gets addressed and there's some answer about the Stealth stacking (don't want it to swing the other way either)...have to figure there's going to be a few things done in the next couple of days to have stuff dropped out Thursday for a Holo patch.
At this point, pushing it for Thursday may be too much to ask. Some others confirmed the mail now works, so the items that are confirmed to work on Tribble can be rolled out by Thursday but the list will likely be quite short. These changes are introduced on Tribble precisely to beta test before general release.

I am feeling quite mixed about these swings. I have only two toons, one is a long-time Fed and the other is the newly created Rom, with the Fed toon acting as his mentor / sponsor and pretty much funded all the Rom's equipment and progress with EC, Dil and Zen. A lot of time and investment have been put into this Rom to make him respectable and formidable - with 5 boff all with Superior Operative and Subterfuge traits. The Fleet Dhelan has +900 Stealth as a result, which is meaningless under the current EPtA. Supposedly, if changed, my ship should have a near perfect cloak as opposed to being chased by some Escorts running EPtA. Though, the PvP testing wasn't bad as the Escorts had hard time actually landing his shots due to the high defensive under cloak and my side ended up winning with no casualties. It was FvF queue. On other hand, from experience, detecting cloak was extremely difficult, much harder than some of the Klink players here tried to mislead others who didn't know through some half truths and half lies statements. The fact is if someone spec in a Nebula entirely set for cloak detection, that Nebula just becomes a useless big fat target with little heal or offensive capabilities. On its own, it will not survive for long. Against a Klink fleet who knows what they are doing, it will pretty much be instantly targeted and annihilated. The specialization that was required was too extreme that such ship isn't capable of doing anything else. Who would spend two slots to put in Sensor Probes? Seriously, it aint' happening. The opportunity cost on either damage or heal/resistance would be tremendous. Even then, it will only catch cloakers with low Aux and low Stealth and be unable to detect well spec cloakers prior to them hitting 2-4 km range, aka. point blank range.

On the balance, I prefer to see a skill that can break cloak more easily, even it puts my Dhlean at risk. I am accustomed to fighting and surviving without a cloak, the cloak is just a bonus to set up the initial attack, and to get away if necessary. I am not dependent on one-shot Alpha (well, I am philosophically opposed to it) and can fight in prolonged battle holding my own. As it stands, some people just abuse cloak and exploit the unintended one-shot alpha which Cryptic never addressed and in turn, scared a lot of people away from pvp at their own detriment. These people like to congratulate themselves as "skilled" , I think not. They too are using a known exploit. If they are so skilled, they can easily adapt to different styles as opposed to being a one trick pony, hence all the huge panic when EPtA was broken - because they don't know what to do, some are even silly enough to threaten with strike and boycotts, like really?

If Subterfuge stacks while the EPtA becomes broken, it means a lot of ships will fly around with near perfect cloaks. What the Klinks didn't realize is that unlike before, they too will have a hard time finding their targets as cloaks become widely accessible and they will have even less abilities to break those cloaks. Aceton Assimilators will be ambushed by Fed T'Varo with torps, making them near useless and total waste. PvP fights can become incredibly long, causing people to drop out, tired of waiting and cloaking.

Hopefully, these bugs can be properly addressed with the right balance but I won't be holding my breath.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 15,495
# 28
06-04-2013, 12:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by snoge00f View Post
So I did some testing of the Tribble EPTA changes.

With Sensors 9, Com uni console, Sensor Scan, EPTA 1.

I can detect a ship with max stealth at a shade under 11km.

Going to test later with a different setup as a test subject.

But so far, I'm happy with the changes. It seems like I won't have to gimp my setup's healing potential or survivability to detect cloaked ships.
So it's boosting Perception without boosting Stealth Detection Rating?

Do you happen to know what Stealth Value the ship had?
What your Stealth Detection Rating was? What you Aux was? Under skills in the ship portrait that it said your Starships Sensors was?

Meh, one of these days I'll get the girlfriend to play so I can test things with a friend...lol. She's watching YouTube or I'd log on her account she never uses on her machine.

edit: BTW, "Com uni console"...?
I'm just another poster on the forums with my own ideas and opinions.


Last edited by virusdancer; 06-04-2013 at 12:27 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 15,495
# 29
06-04-2013, 12:22 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by newromulan1 View Post
This is essentially what I said in my other post/thread - Sci should be the only class any good at detecting cloaked ships - and they should be spec'd for it.
A little more of a buff from Aux for Sci Vessels over non-Sci Vessels wouldn't hurt, imo.

non-Sci: 0.4 Stealth Detection Rating/0.2 Perception-StealthSight per Aux
Sci: 1.2 Stealth Detection Rating/0.6 Perception-StealthSight per Aux

@130 Aux...
non-Sci: 26 Perception
Sci: 78 Perception

A difference of 52 StealthSight, meaning the Sci can only see just over 1km better than the non-Sci...
I'm just another poster on the forums with my own ideas and opinions.

Captain
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 1,061
# 30
06-04-2013, 12:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by snoge00f View Post
So I did some testing of the Tribble EPTA changes.

With Sensors 9, Com uni console, Sensor Scan, EPTA 1.

I can detect a ship with max stealth at a shade under 11km.

Going to test later with a different setup as a test subject.

But so far, I'm happy with the changes. It seems like I won't have to gimp my setup's healing potential or survivability to detect cloaked ships.
No offense, I find what you said hard to believe. Your statements are vague. First of all, EPTA is currently broken on Tribble, meaning it has no effect at all. Sensors 9 and Sensor Scan - funny I spend lots of time in Kerrat prior to LoR, it will only detect ships with poor stealth, aka. those who have low aux and/or no spec into Stealth skill. Those who fly like Minimax, never, not even once.

What's a "max stealth", how do you define that?

If what you say is true, which I remain doubtful and you can detect ships with "max stealth" as far as 11km out so easily, I guarantee you truck loads of angry Klingons will continue their strikes and demanding fix. Don't get me wrong, I sincerely hope you are right. However, with the EPtA shown to have no effect on Tribble, I think you are hitting on a placebo, nothing else.
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