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Lt. Commander
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 184
# 51
06-06-2013, 08:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bitemepwe View Post
Your still spouting blind accusations of exploit without offering evidence that proves it.

I have no concern why the feds cry foul and hide if they can actually list this BoP exploit that they fear so much in fvK pvp.

You cry about exploits and even whine about whinning but offer no proof.

Complain when the issue is not your wounded fed pride burning and you actually have found an exploit.
Ok then, you want proof then. How many vessels make such extensive use of Tricolbolt which was OP and Transphasic mines with are STILL OP... Remember, if one crits... they all crit HARD. Your hull is decimated with these weapons and yet, Federation ships and other Klingon vessels do not make extensive use of this weapon.

BoP's do... the universal bring officers in connection to weapons and abilities that would normally not be OP is what makes the BoP completely OP compared to anything that isn't a lockbox ship.

Lose the all universal layout and BoP's become what they should be in PvP and the game becomes fair again. Its the introduction of other skills, abilities and consoles that have made them this way.

Last edited by sterlingwarbird; 06-06-2013 at 08:26 AM.
Lieutenant
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 99
# 52
06-06-2013, 08:28 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by smokeybacon90 View Post
Cruisers are perhaps less forgiving and harder to bring up to a good level, but of course there is a point to them: to allow one to play the game in a different fashion. Maybe they are all-round less effective than an escort. But some people play them for the challenge, others because they just like the concept of tankier ships, others for the RP aspect.
They can be very unforgiving to play if they are not setup right, escorts are easy like that put the best weapons and consoles you can find and you have usually a good escort ship.
__________________________________________________ _________________________________

People complain about the lacking balance in game, agreed, ships are not balanced against eachother.
But are they supposed to be?
I doubt that.
But there is still balance in the game, this is made up of different types of ships used and careers used is also something that set's the balance, one way or another.
How you spend your skillpoint is 75% of what your ship will be capable of doing.

Cruisers are good ships, i dont fly them often, but i do, and that is another type of fun.
The experts on cruisers out there in the sto game universe knows this, they also know that most escorts are no threat to them.

So, cruisers are not useless.
Actually, my next ship will be a cruiser.... :-D
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,766
# 53
06-06-2013, 09:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sterlingwarbird View Post
Ok then, you want proof then. How many vessels make such extensive use of Tricolbolt which was OP and Transphasic mines with are STILL OP... Remember, if one crits... they all crit HARD. Your hull is decimated with these weapons and yet, Federation ships and other Klingon vessels do not make extensive use of this weapon.

BoP's do... the universal bring officers in connection to weapons and abilities that would normally not be OP is what makes the BoP completely OP compared to anything that isn't a lockbox ship.

Lose the all universal layout and BoP's become what they should be in PvP and the game becomes fair again. Its the introduction of other skills, abilities and consoles that have made them this way.
All players in both factions flying any ship choice can choose to use broken equipment of consoles or what is broken that they think gives them an edge in pvp.
The feds do it
The KDF do it.

Blaiming the use of any broken item ingame is not the fault of the BoP.

Your still offering just speculative whine based on your on opinions and not fact.
Richard Hamilton (1975-2014)
goodbye good friend. We will see you in the DMZ in the sky oneday, save a shot for us.

Last edited by bitemepwe; 06-06-2013 at 09:48 AM.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 5,587
# 54
06-06-2013, 11:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bitemepwe View Post
<snip>
Hey Roach, if memory serves, most Feds back in the day hated PvPing against Klingons for mostly the following reasons:

De-cloaking alphas from BoPs
Cloaks on KDF ships in general
Carrier spam (in particular siphon drones and Orion interceptors)
BoPs even having a Battlecloak and Universal layout
C-store consoles (Leech, Theta, AA, etc)
Drain builds
The B'rel

And probably some other stuff I am missing.

With time and Romulans, almost all that stuff is not a KDF only thing anymore.

All Romulan ships have battle cloaks, almost every decent lower tier KDF console has been traded with the Feds. The new Tal shiar ships let Feds have another two cloaking ships (in-built cloaks at that). Carrier spam is equally bad on both sides with stuff like siphons on the KDF, and Yellowstones on the Fed. De-cloaking alphas can also be done with Romulans and the new Tal shiar ships.

Drain builds I will admit can still be really really annoying to deal with.

Universal stations are given out like candy anymore. Only BoPs have full universal layouts though, so it's something at least.

On the B'rel, that takes a particularly special strategy and thought to make into a good torp/mine boat. And if that guy is right in the one-crit bug being back, then that isn't the fault of the BoPs, it's a bug, and it's a bug anyone can use (like how everyone felt like using the EPTA bug). Besides, the B'rel lacks the tac console slots to make them hurt REALLY hard, compared to the T'varo (especially the fleet version).

Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,766
# 55
06-06-2013, 11:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mimey2 View Post
Hey Roach, if memory serves, most Feds back in the day hated PvPing against Klingons for mostly the following reasons:

De-cloaking alphas from BoPs
Cloaks on KDF ships in general
Carrier spam (in particular siphon drones and Orion interceptors)
BoPs even having a Battlecloak and Universal layout
C-store consoles (Leech, Theta, AA, etc)
Drain builds
The B'rel

And probably some other stuff I am missing.

With time and Romulans, almost all that stuff is not a KDF only thing anymore.

All Romulan ships have battle cloaks, almost every decent lower tier KDF console has been traded with the Feds. The new Tal shiar ships let Feds have another two cloaking ships (in-built cloaks at that). Carrier spam is equally bad on both sides with stuff like siphons on the KDF, and Yellowstones on the Fed. De-cloaking alphas can also be done with Romulans and the new Tal shiar ships.

Drain builds I will admit can still be really really annoying to deal with.

Universal stations are given out like candy anymore. Only BoPs have full universal layouts though, so it's something at least.

On the B'rel, that takes a particularly special strategy and thought to make into a good torp/mine boat. And if that guy is right in the one-crit bug being back, then that isn't the fault of the BoPs, it's a bug, and it's a bug anyone can use (like how everyone felt like using the EPTA bug). Besides, the B'rel lacks the tac console slots to make them hurt REALLY hard, compared to the T'varo (especially the fleet version).
True, very true. The KDF has long been then villian because of our tactics and toys.
It was a valid dislike but not an OP use on our part, unless said use was using known broken items.
As you state that is no longer the case as ALL can exploit near equally in STO at this time.

The person Im in disagreement with though is only calling the BoP OP, which it is not.

I can only surmise its due to dying to a BoP or group of BoPs, which is not a sign of OP.

This is complaint of hubris that all who fight a good BoP build feel after dying but it takes a good build proprrly used to achieve.

If the BoP was OP we would have teams of them sweeping the ques. Yet we do not.
Richard Hamilton (1975-2014)
goodbye good friend. We will see you in the DMZ in the sky oneday, save a shot for us.

Last edited by bitemepwe; 06-06-2013 at 11:45 AM.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,592
# 56
06-06-2013, 12:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mimey2 View Post
Hey Roach, if memory serves, most Feds back in the day hated PvPing against Klingons for mostly the following reasons:

De-cloaking alphas from BoPs
Cloaks on KDF ships in general
Carrier spam (in particular siphon drones and Orion interceptors)
BoPs even having a Battlecloak and Universal layout
C-store consoles (Leech, Theta, AA, etc)
Drain builds
The B'rel

And probably some other stuff I am missing.

With time and Romulans, almost all that stuff is not a KDF only thing anymore.
And we Feds were damned right!
But now I agree with you evuls...our mighty Romulan allies are changing the balance...
K D F - Killing Disadvantaged Feds
K D F - The evul way to play Sto

Adm. Marcus orders: Punish the evul Klinguns! Punish the evul HOBOs! And nuclearize Qo'nos once and for all!
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,592
# 57
06-06-2013, 12:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bitemepwe View Post
True, very true. The KDF has long been then villian because of our tactics and toys.
Not because of them...you're always the bad guys in the Star Trek Universe!
You're the evul and we Feds the cure...
K D F - Killing Disadvantaged Feds
K D F - The evul way to play Sto

Adm. Marcus orders: Punish the evul Klinguns! Punish the evul HOBOs! And nuclearize Qo'nos once and for all!
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,537
# 58
06-06-2013, 12:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mimey2 View Post
Hey Roach, if memory serves, most Feds back in the day hated PvPing against Klingons for mostly the following reasons: SNIP!!

If by back in the day you meant for more than a year following launch there was ONE huge reason PVP was hated. Especially by escort pilots. Mostly by escort pilots.

It was next to impossible for them to kill anything without an assist from a sci ship or a cruiser. If your bored take a few minutes and you can hammer out the math on it. It was next to impossible, and it is easy to prove that.

BOP's on the other hand could decloak and waste one, two or three Federation ships. Depending on how many happened to be there. Because almost ALL federation players shared a very bad habit. They sat still or moved very slowly to stay together, thus destroying their defense bonus. And for those ships that DIDN'T sit still, BOP's could have a nice tractor. Let me tell you right now, it wasn't really needed. Most guys really just didn't try to move like they needed to.

And this was all because the Acc/Def/Crit mechanic was poorly understood if at all by most players. This hasn't changed THAT much, but what has changed is that Acc has been added in generous amounts. This ended the dependencies that Escorts had while at the same time was a very hard blow against cruisers and science.

See at the same time we gave all ships the potential to gain Acc the only defense and shield balancing that was added was given to tactical.

Whoops. Small oversight.
If I don't respond to posts on this forum don't be offended. I don't sub or follow any of them.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 184
# 59
06-07-2013, 03:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by thissler View Post
If by back in the day you meant for more than a year following launch there was ONE huge reason PVP was hated. Especially by escort pilots. Mostly by escort pilots.

It was next to impossible for them to kill anything without an assist from a sci ship or a cruiser. If your bored take a few minutes and you can hammer out the math on it. It was next to impossible, and it is easy to prove that.

BOP's on the other hand could decloak and waste one, two or three Federation ships. Depending on how many happened to be there. Because almost ALL federation players shared a very bad habit. They sat still or moved very slowly to stay together, thus destroying their defense bonus. And for those ships that DIDN'T sit still, BOP's could have a nice tractor. Let me tell you right now, it wasn't really needed. Most guys really just didn't try to move like they needed to.

And this was all because the Acc/Def/Crit mechanic was poorly understood if at all by most players. This hasn't changed THAT much, but what has changed is that Acc has been added in generous amounts. This ended the dependencies that Escorts had while at the same time was a very hard blow against cruisers and science.

See at the same time we gave all ships the potential to gain Acc the only defense and shield balancing that was added was given to tactical.

Whoops. Small oversight.
The issue is that in a cruiser, the defense bonus is pretty much negated and there is no real point to moving. I assure you that even with the elusive trait, my cruiser still can get hit 99% of time.

Since escorts have the advantage of not being hit due to insane defense bonuses, doesn't it reason that cruisers should have much more hull and shield resistance then they currently do, something built into them like an innate 20% resistance to all weapons and kinetics?

Or better yet, have a passive which cancels out transphasic procs? To make them much more durable and competitive on the battlefield. I would love to hear any other ideas on improving cruiser pvp? Or tips on the best way to survive BoP and escort Alphas because nothing I do seems to work well EXCEPT RSP.

So instead of slagging me Klinks... how about some advice...

I have x2 Acc Fleet Weapons, the Tholian 10% beam accuracy Console and the Accurate trait and I still RARELY hit escorts... so please... impart your wisdom because I'm obviously doing something wrong here...

Last edited by sterlingwarbird; 06-07-2013 at 03:58 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 3,316
# 60
06-07-2013, 05:14 AM
I love how in this game particularly, more than any other I have ever PvPed in... the line I just read about "it must be a revenge nerfcall against X because the player died to X" is about the most overused thing I have ever seen.

Seriously... enough people complain about X or Y or Z that there is obviously a problem, stop dancing the issue.

I will give you a stark example of how broken end game pvp in this game is. Pvp at any other level than 50. Go, roll a toon and queue up at say level 20. Rely on actual skill instead of minmax builds at endgame with OP combinations of crazy statted gear.

Ive done it, in fact I roll total face when I do it. Notsomuch at level 50 pvp, why? Because I havent completed my setup yet, im about 15 percent damage short since I am using blue XIs for tac consoles instead of purples, im using mk xi rep gear, not xii, i havent been able to afford the "super doffs" ... another disadvantage... a long term player has all sorts of extra buffs and stats I havent gotten yet. Those do add up. Doesnt mean I stop trying, and I do pretty well all things considered. I wonder how some of these matches ive been in would be if I was flying a gimped out JHAS with all the trimmings. I bet id stomp 90 percent of the so called "elite" in this game. I guess we will find out when i get there, huh? Til then, I guess I keep clawing my way.

I have never seen a game that relied so heavily on perfect setups to be competitive in pvp like this. You could be the best ******ned pilot in history and get roflstomped due to the gear gap.

That is the entire reason PvP in this game is so niche and has apparently reached life support stage. All you see are premade top geared players murdering casuals in every queue. You think those casuals ever come back? You wonder where your new pvpers are gonna come from?

The flaw is in the game itself, the gearing itself. A stock toon to a brand new level 50 player is about a quarter as powerful as a tricked out C-store or lockbox ship.
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Last edited by rylanadionysis; 06-07-2013 at 05:24 AM.
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