Community Moderator
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 4,294
# 11
06-10-2013, 08:30 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by brigadooom View Post
http://imgur.com/YjWu8hl

I'm inclined to agree with infinitespaces

It's really close, but not exactly the same even allowing for zooming, rotating, and cropping.

I'm not saying it wasn't an altered version of the same picture... there are a number of images that seem suspiciously congruent. There are also enough differences to make me wonder.

Probably best to file an infringement claim and let it proceed from there. I'm no copyright lawyer and I'm not a PWE employee. We don't know if Cryptic claims to have produced the artwork internally or if they bought it from somewhere.

If it was a variant of the same image, maybe it was supposed to be used as a background for an internal mockup of the UI design and shouldn't have been posted publicly. That's only speculation on my part, since it's labeled as "Concept Art".

Either way, I'll make sure BranFlakes knows about this thread.
Volunteer Community Moderator for the Star Trek Online forums -- My views may not represent those of Cryptic Studios or Perfect World Entertainment. If you wish to speak to someone on the community team, file a "forums and website" support ticket here, as we are not able to respond to PMs regarding moderation inquiries.
Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 421
# 12
06-10-2013, 08:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluegeek View Post
It's really close, but not exactly the same even allowing for zooming, rotating, and cropping.

I'm not saying it wasn't an altered version of the same picture... there are a number of images that seem suspiciously congruent. There are also enough differences to make me wonder.

Probably best to file an infringement claim and let it proceed from there. I'm no copyright lawyer and I'm not a PWE employee. We don't know if Cryptic claims to have produced the artwork internally or if they bought it from somewhere.

If it was a variant of the same image, maybe it was supposed to be used as a background for an internal mockup of the UI design and shouldn't have been posted publicly. That's only speculation on my part, since it's labeled as "Concept Art".

Either way, I'll make sure BranFlakes knows about this thread.

its clearly a derivative work based on http://imgur.com/YjWu8hl and used to promote a commercial product. Copyright violation lawsuits have been won for less.

http://www.copyright.gov/help/faq/faq-fairuse.html
"How much of someone else's work can I use without getting permission?
Under the fair use doctrine of the U.S. copyright statute, it is permissible to use limited portions of a work including quotes, for purposes such as commentary, criticism, news reporting, and scholarly reports."

How much do I have to change in order to claim copyright in someone else's work?
Only the owner of copyright in a work has the right to prepare, or to authorize someone else to create, a new version of that work. Accordingly, you cannot claim copyright to another's work, no matter how much you change it, unless you have the owner's consent.




If this was meant just for internal concept art. It should have never left the artist's working folder. Its a bad, risky practice

Its also occurred to me that both artists might have used the same source material (a nasa colorized photo for example) and artist bringing the complaint may be in the wrong.
House of Sigma (channel KDFdefera for PvE requiring only KDF teams) List of KDF issues [my in-game handle @bootymcboots] (channel KDF Empire for KDF orientated discussion - still in development/growing)

Last edited by bootyboots; 06-10-2013 at 09:02 AM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,808
# 13
06-10-2013, 09:08 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bootyboots View Post
its clearly a derivative work based on http://imgur.com/YjWu8hl and used to promote a commercial product. Copyright violation lawsuits have been won for less.

http://www.copyright.gov/help/faq/faq-fairuse.html
"How much of someone else's work can I use without getting permission?
Under the fair use doctrine of the U.S. copyright statute, it is permissible to use limited portions of a work including quotes, for purposes such as commentary, criticism, news reporting, and scholarly reports."

How much do I have to change in order to claim copyright in someone else's work?
Only the owner of copyright in a work has the right to prepare, or to authorize someone else to create, a new version of that work. Accordingly, you cannot claim copyright to another's work, no matter how much you change it, unless you have the owner's consent.




If this was meant just for internal concept art. It should have never left the artist's working folder. Its a bad, risky practice

Its also occurred to me that both artists might have used the same source material (a nasa colorized photo for example) and artist bringing the complaint may be in the wrong.
Um, remember; if you base used work is modyfied and varies by more than 10% from the original - you're SoL.
Formerly known as Armsman from June 2008 to June 20, 2012 http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=91861979000&dateline=  1340755546
PWE Drone says, "Your STO community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 131
# 14
06-10-2013, 09:13 AM
Naughty Cryptic just got caught red handed have they?
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 421
# 15
06-10-2013, 09:19 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by crypticarmsman View Post
Um, remember; if you base used work is modyfied and varies by more than 10% from the original - you're SoL.
I guess you didn't read the quote from the US copyright office


Anyway, at this point its a dispute between the two artists with Cryptic being entangled. We really don't have enough information to judge if there was a violation or not, and even if we did it would be academic.
House of Sigma (channel KDFdefera for PvE requiring only KDF teams) List of KDF issues [my in-game handle @bootymcboots] (channel KDF Empire for KDF orientated discussion - still in development/growing)
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 13,094
# 16
06-10-2013, 09:20 AM
I'm in the "who cares?" bin.

The concept art image in dispute is NOT part of the game, and the starfield was chopped up and rearranged heavily. The parts of your work that are actually unique, aren't in the concept art. The parts they may have used look like random bits of Hubble imagery.

I find it somewhat suspicious that this is the only one of your arts to have the "donotuseplz" button on it....

*looks more* Oh wait... the art you linked ISN'T the best match for the concept art at all.... It's this one: http://hameed.deviantart.com/art/Bey...4?_sid=bef1103 Which you have made available for free download.
HAIL HYDRA!

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
I can haz joystick!
MMOs aren't charities. Corporations are supposed to make a profit. It's what they do.
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 13,094
# 17
06-10-2013, 09:28 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bootyboots View Post
I guess you didn't read the quote from the US copyright office


Anyway, at this point its a dispute between the two artists with Cryptic being entangled. We really don't have enough information to judge if there was a violation or not, and even if we did it would be academic.
There is much precedent in this field, and many cases have been made where the original artist LOST a suit. Why? "Is the derivative work Original?" IE are they JUST copying your work or are they incorporating peices of it into a new peice of art?

In this situation, you cannot make a case based on the first one. Clearly the work was HEAVILY modified, and isn't even the focus of the image.... It's just there for background fluff. If you did win and got awarded damages they'd probably give you a few dollars in "compensation" and that'd be the end of it.
HAIL HYDRA!

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
I can haz joystick!
MMOs aren't charities. Corporations are supposed to make a profit. It's what they do.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,808
# 18
06-10-2013, 09:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bootyboots View Post
I guess you didn't read the quote from the US copyright office
.
Oh, I read it, however, case law on the matter will usually win out; and that's been the case for most claims like the OP's over the years. BTW - the 'fair use' clause (which was also mentioned in the post with the other copyright lawinfo) wouldn't even be an issue in this case as it's clearly NOT 'fair use'; as Cryptic was not doing a review of the artwork; or using it for academic purposes. As the OP posits, if they did use it (and that would be for a court to decide in the end should the OP pursue legal action); it was indeed for commercial/promotional purposes once they posted that concept art.

The issue then comes down to 'damages' - and that would be where the 'percentage of change' figures into the legal equation.
Formerly known as Armsman from June 2008 to June 20, 2012 http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=91861979000&dateline=  1340755546
PWE Drone says, "Your STO community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 13,094
# 19
06-10-2013, 09:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by crypticarmsman View Post
Oh, I read it, however, case law on the matter will usually win out; and that's been the case for most claims like the OP's over the years. BTW - the 'fair use' clause (which was also mentioned in the post with the other copyright lawinfo) wouldn't even be an issue in this case as it's clearly NOT 'fair use'; as Cryptic was not doing a review of the artwork; or using it for academic purposes. As the OP posits, if they did use it (and that would be for a court to decide in the end should the OP pursue legal action); it was indeed for commercial/promotional purposes once they posted that concept art.

The issue then comes down to 'damages' - and that would be where the 'percentage of change' figures into the legal equation.
Yes, and "damages" in this case would be a paltry sum compared to legal costs.
HAIL HYDRA!

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
I can haz joystick!
MMOs aren't charities. Corporations are supposed to make a profit. It's what they do.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,060
# 20
06-10-2013, 09:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by maddog0000doom View Post
if u didnt want people to use it why post it online. if ur that upset about it, dont make it avaible to millions.
Hush, you ninny. This is different than some kid posting it to their Tumblr.

Anyway, OP: If you are being ripped off, ask nice. Then get a lawyer to ask nice. If it goes on past that I hope you got deep pockets. Good luck.
_________________
Nebula coffee is the best coffee
Closed Thread

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 04:42 PM.