Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,465
# 41
06-11-2013, 05:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by meimeitoo View Post
All MMO's are overwhelming at first, whether it be EVE Online or Star Trek Online. No amount of tutorials is going to overcome that. Which is why EVE Online doesn't even have a tutorial any more (or something so rudimentary, it isn't worth the name). People playing MMO's know this. They don't just walk away because it's difficult the first few days. The usual way to overcome is to find the nearest help channel -- or figure out the de facto help channels, like ESD zone (or DS9, if they can tear themselves away from Gorn jokes long enough), and try and make your way thru the forest.
The point you're entirely missing is that a tutorial is more than a giant scrolling list of "this button does this", before throwing the player headfirst into a game. It's an opportunity to set the atmosphere, lay the groundwork for story elements, and generally introduce the player to the game.

Currently the KDF, and to a lesser degree the Romulan, tutorials do an excellent job of setting the scenes and making a player feel as though they're a part of the respective faction. The Fed tutorial...not so much.
Lieutenant
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 39
# 42
06-11-2013, 05:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by zurganus View Post
Well said Brandon. Regardless of what anyone does however there will always be the group that is unhappy with whatever is going on. And thats ok. If the overall view of what has taken place is positive than the group that is unhappy is inconsequential. Don't mistake what I am saying as "they dont matter", they very much do matter, they are customers just like everyone else. But to expect everything perfect on the first try is stupidity at its finest.

There will ALWAYS be bugs. Some bigger than others. And yes, they will be frustrating at times. But if you dont over react and just let things flow, then things will get fixed. Maybe not as fast as YOU want, but they will be fixed.

One last thing...

Terms or phrases that are overused by online playerbases:

1. I am gonna quit if you dont fix X.

2. There are so many people who are upset with X.

And thats all I have to say for today.
And there is always going to be "the group" that is happy to defend Cryptic no matter what they do.

Perhaps they are "overused" for a reason!

How can you ever hope to fix something if you never acknowledge that said something is indeed broken!

Denial is truly ugly.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 93
# 43
06-11-2013, 05:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by manwholaughs View Post
And there is always going to be "the group" that is happy to defend Cryptic no matter what they do.

Perhaps they are "overused" for a reason!

How can you ever hope to fix something if you never acknowledge that said something is indeed broken!

Denial is truly ugly.
Not at all. I have just learned to accept that there will be bugs, no matter what game I am playing. If to you that means I am in denial then so be it. But threatening them that you are going to leave, or speaking for everyone when you do not have that privilege just isnt cool. I dont know where most of yall have grown up, and quite frankly I dont care, but I was raised on the principals of respect and dignity. Given they dont have a whole lot to do with this particular conversation, but I am not gonna blow my top when something gets broke, because lets be frank, **** happens.

As for acknowledging things, believe me I acknowledge alot, but like I said, I dont blow my stack every time something breaks.
=/\= "I don't know what I'm supposed to do, I only know what I can do." ~ James T. Kirk =/\=
Community Moderator
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,659
# 44
06-11-2013, 05:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by robeasom View Post
Most people want to have one character in each faction so they can play multiple styles of play
[citation needed]

Most people in any MMO play one faction nearly exclusively. Most people in any MMO play one character far in excess of any other.

And finally, most Star Trek fans identify with the Federation more than any other faction. This is because for 28 seasons (29 if you count the Animated Series) and 12 movies, the Federation have been the protagonists.

I don't doubt many players want to have characters in every faction, and I'm definitely one of them, but "most people" really don't. This would not change if the other factions had identical amounts of content. It wouldn't even change if the Klingons and Romulans had more and better content than the Federation.

Whether it's a good thing or a bad thing, the fact is that this is a game based on a bunch of TV shows about the Federation. It is therefore of necessity a game about the Federation. If they can also give a good experience for fans of the Klingons and Romulans, and for the inevitable subset of people who instinctively choose the bad guys in any game, super; but if they don't focus the majority of the development on the majority of the customers, they will fail. If they fail, the game goes away, or development of it goes away.
Volunteer Community Moderator for the Star Trek Online Forums. My views do not represent those of Cryptic Studios or Perfect World Entertainment.
If you wish to speak to someone on the community team, file a 'forums and website' support ticket here, as we are not able to respond to PMs regarding moderation inquiries.
Follow me: Twitter,Google
Career Officer
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,111
# 45
06-11-2013, 05:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by stirling191 View Post
The point you're entirely missing is that a tutorial is more than a giant scrolling list of "this button does this", before throwing the player headfirst into a game. It's an opportunity to set the atmosphere, lay the groundwork for story elements, and generally introduce the player to the game.
You seem to grasp the concept of opportunity, but not that opportunity cost. Which is to say, working on fancy tutorials goes, inevitably, at the expense of time and resourses best spent elsewhere. In that vein, it's all a matter of priority. It's like making a crappy coffee machine, and then spend countless hours not of fixing your product, but on... writing the manual! See, to any sane person it would appear obvious that a decent manual, whilst cute, is secondary to bringing out a decent product. Not in the minds of Cryptic, though, apparently.

P.S. You guys in this thread are hilarious. Eagerly awaiting your next "Well said, Boss!" posts!

P.P.S. It just occured to me, that, in the minds of marketing folks, presenting a fancy 'front page' actually *is* more important than a good product. But let's not go there, as the universe would probably collapse under so much cynisism.
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,465
# 46
06-11-2013, 06:22 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by meimeitoo View Post
You seem to grasp the concept of opportunity, but not that opportunity cost. Which is to say, working on fancy tutorials goes, inevitably, at the expense of time and resourses best spent elsewhere. In that vein, it's all a matter of priority. It's like making a crappy coffee machine, and then spend countless hours not of fixing your product, but on... writing the manual! See, to any sane person it would appear obvious that a decent manual, whilst cute, is secondary to bringing out a decent product. Not in the minds of Cryptic, though, apparently.
Flawed analogy is flawed. Game tutorials exist within the game, not outside it. And you know damn well a tutorial mission is something entirely different than a reference manual.

Secondly, the argument that somehow taking the time to make a solid tutorial is going to starve out content development...that's just hilarious. A tutorial mission, especially if well done, *is* content. The very best tutorial missions are those that pair guidance with storytelling and gameplay. Both the Romulan and KDF tutorials do this (introducing game concepts while providing a grounding in the storyline and setting the player is stepping into) exceedingly well.

The Fed intro by comparison is noticeably bland and boring, and entirely disconnected with the entire Fed storyline.

But hey, why bother advocating for improving something when you can just bash bash bash, or insult those willing to actually give credit when an organization actually gets something right?
Republic Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 708
# 47
06-11-2013, 06:35 AM
the fact is the fed tutorial isn't awful. while a new 1 maybe be nice, it's certainly not needed or worthy of a massive time consuming overhaul. the kdf and romulans needed them to be made. that's a major difference.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,111
# 48
06-11-2013, 06:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by stirling191 View Post
Flawed analogy is flawed. Game tutorials exist within the game, not outside it. And you know damn well a tutorial mission is something entirely different than a reference manual.
Irrelevant. Time spent on making tutorials is simply not time spent elsewhere, is the point you're missing.

Quote:
Secondly, the argument that somehow taking the time to make a solid tutorial is going to starve out content development...that's just hilarious. A tutorial mission, especially if well done, *is* content.
Nice strawman. Except I wasn't talking about tutorials not being content, but about creating tutorials taking away time from *fixing* the now horrendeously broken product first.

Quote:
But hey, why bother advocating for improving something when you can just bash bash bash, or insult those willing to actually give credit when an organization actually gets something right?
Funny, I was just thinking along similar lines: why advocate real improvement when you can just take the opportunity to suck up to the boss? Which is why I usually ignore threads like this, as the responses invariably always consist of the same, trite one-liners (or variations thereto); like:

"You can't please em all!"
"There's always a few!"
"Haters will hate!"
"Blah!"

Or, i.c., "Well said, Boss!" (aka "Look at me being one of the good guys, boss! Aren't you proud of me?!")

And yes, it does annoy me somewhat, as, instead of prioritizing what needs to be fixed first (which, if they had the cojones to put up a poll about would overwhelmingly be 'getting rid of all nasty regression bugs first'), all these discussions end the same: with people who love grandstanding more than just looking at things rationally.

So, on that note, have fun with your tutorial; and, meanwhile, I hope to have imparted some sense of urgency on the devs to straighten out their product first.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 624
# 49
06-11-2013, 07:05 AM
The Federation Tutorial is better than most MMOs tutorials. Sure, a little overhaul romulan style would be nice to see but I very much agree to the "fix bugs only with the full team and nothing else atm" crowd. Right now for every "woah, awesome" I see two "ewwww, cheap oversight" now. Yeah, its not gamebreaking but fun suffers more and more. Death from a thousand papercuts is not where I want to see this otherwise wonderful game end up.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,764
# 50
06-11-2013, 07:09 AM
I for one am very happy with both the long needed KDF low level content and tutorial and the excellent Romie storylines.
Both where well written and exciting to play through
Thanks for the revamp that gives life and meaning to the KDF at the lowest level of the game by taking the time to fix that aspect of the broken faction.
I greatly appreciate it as a fan of the IP and the Empire.
Richard Hamilton (1975-2014)
goodbye good friend. We will see you in the DMZ in the sky oneday, save a shot for us.

Last edited by bitemepwe; 06-11-2013 at 07:12 AM.
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 09:09 AM.