Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,465
# 51
06-11-2013, 07:12 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by meimeitoo View Post
all these discussions end the same: with people who love grandstanding more than just looking at things rationally.
The irony of that statement coming from someone doing nothing but grandstanding is absolutely adorable.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 421
# 52
06-11-2013, 08:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pwebranflakes View Post
New players do (and you should, too). We only have one chance at a first impression, and if someone can't get through the tutorial because they are confused or do not enjoy their experience during it, the chances of them continuing to play is quite low.

New players who complete the tutorial and continue to play from there equates to growth for the game -- growth leads to new content, systems, ships, costumes, etc.; more expansions; more seasons; and a long, healthy life for the game.

A strong tutorial, like the new Romulan and Klingon tutorial, for the Federation will only lead to what I mentioned above, and I think we can all agree we would love for much more of it.

So, who cares about the tutorial? We all should

Cheers,

Brandon =/\=

I've played the federation tutorial a dozen times. Each time I would see about half the players quit at various stages during the tutorial.

Given the high turnover rate of STO (and probably most other MMOs) new players are always needed and it is best not to have them leave the game before they start
House of Sigma (channel KDFdefera for PvE requiring only KDF teams) List of KDF issues [my in-game handle @bootymcboots] (channel KDF Empire for KDF orientated discussion - still in development/growing)
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,763
# 53
06-11-2013, 09:20 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by meimeitoo View Post
All MMO's are overwhelming at first, whether it be EVE Online or Star Trek Online. No amount of tutorials is going to overcome that. Which is why EVE Online doesn't even have a tutorial any more (or something so rudimentary, it isn't worth the name). People playing MMO's know this. They don't just walk away because it's difficult the first few days. The usual way to overcome is to find the nearest help channel -- or figure out the de facto help channels, like ESD zone (or DS9, if they can tear themselves away from Gorn jokes long enough), and try and make your way thru the forest.
With regards to EVE - is that why CCP spent a TON of development resources (and made new intro cinematics) for their 'new player experience' - tried to add more 'handholding' for new players; and continues to try and improve/simplify the EVE interface?

You're crazy if you think that CCP isn't concerned with attracting new players and improving the starting player experience to get a player 'hooked' on the game so they'll want to come back, subscribe - and buy that $60.00 Monacle. it's just good business.
Formerly known as Armsman from June 2008 to June 20, 2012 http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=91861979000&dateline=  1340755546
PWE Drone says, "Your STO community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
Career Officer
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,013
# 54
06-11-2013, 09:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by crypticarmsman View Post
With regards to EVE - is that why CCP spent a TON of development resources (and made new intro cinematics) for their 'new player experience' - tried to add more 'handholding' for new players; and continues to try and improve/simplify the EVE interface?

You're crazy if you think that CCP isn't concerned with attracting new players and improving the starting player experience to get a player 'hooked' on the game so they'll want to come back, subscribe - and buy that $60.00 Monacle. it's just good business.
LOL. Don't get me started on the debacle that was 'Monaclegate.' As for their cinematics, they have a way of being a bit disingenuous, rather than instructive, as the ships in their CGI can do a whole lot more than in-game. Anyway, carebear as I am, I left EVE a while back already. Never ever seen me even a half-way decent tutorial, though.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 779
# 55
06-11-2013, 09:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wilbor2 View Post
im useing google n all i get is BOOM 404! Page not found, sorry but by others comments its not worth my time any way
you are not the onlyone i just contacted them it is on thier end
it might be in itunes ny now
I am mad now
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 779
# 56
06-11-2013, 09:50 AM
not been loaded yet i checked my itunes and it was updated to last week
what is taking so long then
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 766
# 57
06-11-2013, 10:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by meimeitoo View Post
LOL. Don't get me started on the debacle that was 'Monaclegate.' As for their cinematics, they have a way of being a bit disingenuous, rather than instructive, as the ships in their CGI can do a whole lot more than in-game. Anyway, carebear as I am, I left EVE a while back already. Never ever seen me even a half-way decent tutorial, though.
Agreed with some of that, but last time I was there, about 6 months ago, I think, they did have a fair tutorial mission series with the agents. Could it be better? Maybe, I was looking at it through a vets eyes, so I don't know how much it really helps a newb, but I think it was at least half way decent, IMHO.

Getting on the topic of THIS games FED tutorial, I don't think it is that bad compared to the new KDF and ROM in terms of telling people how to play. Where it now lacks is in storyline. Here you have KDF and ROM, both with lots of voice overs, very shiny, and very slick. Comapred to that, the FED tutorial is very dated, and could probably use a facelift in parts. But I think that's only part of the problem. The rest of the problem is that the fed missions are also all dated compared to the ROM and KDF early level missions (up to level 30 ish). Again, this probably only needs polishing up, but it is still needed.
Joined September 2011
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Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 890
# 58
06-11-2013, 10:28 AM
As stated elsewhere, here is the podcast:

http://beta.priorityonepodcast.com/

No need to be sad.

I do enjoy Watts Klingon composition.

For the Foundry, the wheels of progress continue to grind slowly. Because Cryptic can't entertain any Neverwinter ideas until after Neverwinter has formally launched. Which is tedious. But I get it. My speculation is that Season 9 will likely bring improvement for The Foundry in much the same way as Legacy of Romulus has for the general game experience.

And because I think our Community Manager is spot on, "Well said, PWE_Branflakes!". I agree completely with the importance of improving the Federation tutorial. Which I was thinking about the entire time I was testing the Romulan and KDF tutorials.
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Republic Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 855
# 59
06-11-2013, 10:44 AM
I recall one of the Devs, can't remember if it was Dan or Gecko, in an interview pre-LOR that a rather large percentage of new players (AKA new customers) that quit the game during the tutorial and never play again. They also mentioned that once a player completes the tutorial they have very good rate of retainage on that player until at least level cap.

If they can't keep players past the tutorial all the end game content in the universe won't help, and at the end of the day the more people paying the more staff that Cryptic can hire to work on the game.

Its all fine and dandy to say new players should just use other resources to figure out the game, and bad tutorials are par for the course of MMOs, but people who say those things don't really have a grasp on the changing market.

The MMO market is saturated, it has been for a long time, most "new" players to MMOs are players who never played a MMO before, and they aren't hard core bleeding edge gamers, they aren't like the type of players that typically would post on a game forum (which is usually 1-5% of total players at best according to a variety of MMO CMs over the years) they won't hit their heads against the wall trying to make it all work like many of us would, they will just quit and go elsewhere.

They also won't notice many of the bugs whose severity is driven more by hyperbole than it is by actual impact the bug has. Not to say that more shouldn't be done about bugs, but really, players have cried wolf about the severity of many of the bugs for so long it has to be hard to take seriously the real impact they have at the point. Every major release has "broken the game beyond belief!" except not really.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,768
# 60
06-11-2013, 12:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by meimeitoo View Post
Irrelevant. Time spent on making tutorials is simply not time spent elsewhere, is the point you're missing.
And time spent on, say, bugfixes, is time not spent on endgame content. And time spent on endgame content is time not spent on gameplay balance passes. And time spent on balance passes is time not spent on crafting. And time spent on crafting is time not spent on exploration. And so on, and so forth, until you're left with the inevitable truth that no matter where you put the time now, someplace else always needs it too.

Time spent anywhere is time not spent on something else. This is obvious. The question is, what needs that time, when does it need it, and what can be done around it by other people in other departments. For instance, a tutorial revamp does not necessarily require costume guys or all of your bugfix guys, so these things can go on alongside the revamp.

The fact is, the Fed tutorial has every reason to be brought up to par with at least the new KDF tutorial. It's a matter of quality presentation as much as any other thing they could go fix, and this is the one new players are most likely to notice being bad out of the gate. So, it needs to be attended to, if not necessarily before more important things like exploration and crafting.
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