Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 372
# 11
06-11-2013, 06:00 PM
First problematic premise with this thread: That LoR "introduced" the idea of an alpha strike from cloak. Guess who's always been able to do that? I'll give you a hint - it starts with a "K-", and ends with a "-lingons". Heck, Defiants have been able to do that for practically the entire life of the game, too, so it's not like this is even a totally new issue for FvF PvP.

Second problematic premise with this thread: That Alphas from cloak are some sort of unbeatable trump card. There are a few PvPers who specialize in "one-shotting" from cloak, but even then, it's hard to pull off and can be stopped with quick reflexes and good decisions. If you regularly get beat in PvP by this tactic, you need to make an adjustment to your gear, your power selection, your reactions to attack, or all three.

Third problematic premise with this thread: Escorts do universally more damage than cruisers. The truth is, depending on build, a cruiser built to push weapon power and use FaW can actually do more overall damage in a target-rich environment like an STF or a Fleet Action. Those builds do sacrifice some team healing ability, but they can still tank as well or better than any escort, certainly well enough to manage any PvE content in the game.

Fourth problematic premise with this thread: Nerfing escorts will improve the game for cruisers. The fact is that if you don't like how cruisers play now on their own merits, no amount of nerfing escorts will make you enjoy them more. Cruisers will still be relatively slow. They will still do the same amount of damage. They will still be focused on tanking and supporting others. In other words, making escorts worse at their job doesn't change the role of the cruiser at all, and if that role isn't fun for you, DON'T PLAY A CRUISER.

Fifth problematic premise with this thread: Escorts can do anything a cruiser can do. Truth is, no Escort can run (say) Extend shields III, nor can any escort cycle as many hull heals and power buffs as a cruiser can. People often complain that escorts can tank "anything", when in fact much of the time the reason the escort can do that is because of timely team heals. True, those heals don't HAVE to come from a cruiser, but certainly it's a role cruisers excel in, even if there are relatively few players who aim to play a really excellent support character.

Moral of the story: "Escorts Online" is more about forum raging, and less about how the game really plays.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,339
# 12
06-11-2013, 06:05 PM
I disagree with all of you and say it is destroyers online.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 9,068
# 13
06-11-2013, 06:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by chalpen View Post
I disagree with all of you and say it is destroyers online.
But the Summer Event ship is a Risian Corvette...it's going to be Corvettes Online.
Willard the Rat, Reman, F.T'varo - Rave, J.Trill, Kar'Fi - Mysk, Gorn, Varanus
Maal, Klingon, Mogh - Vegar, Orion, Marauder
Nivuh, Ferasan, B'rel - Venit, Lethaen, M.Qin - Kopor, Nausicaan, Guramba
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 466
# 14
06-11-2013, 06:15 PM
The game is actually cruisers online. Everything on this forum is just some sort of rage. The players should have a more positive outlook on life.
Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 282
# 15
06-11-2013, 06:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by darramouss1 View Post

Cryptic, you really need to address this problem. It's now getting beyond a joke. You've made it so that of the ships shown in the series only the Defiant is a real contender for an effective PvP ship. This spits in the face of what Star Trek is meant to be.
Sorry to burst your bubble but Trek was never about epeen comparisons.

Quote:
Whilst you're fixing the balance, do something about the JHAS. It's not a little OP, it's waaaaay OP. As evidenced by the sheer number of serious PvPers who use it.
But you just complained that the Defiant is the only viable pvp ship from canon! And now you want to nerf the other one??
Make up your mind, man!
Lieutenant
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 66
# 16 re escort space
06-11-2013, 06:32 PM
sorry to say it has always been escort space and always will be that being said i still rather fly my cruiser and have a challenge then to go for the easy win and pilot an escort dont get me wrong i can pilot an escort efectivly as well in fact i did have a lvl 50 fed tac toon till the account it was on got lost escorts are realy unimportant since they arent that hard to kill even with a slow cruiser
Captain
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 605
# 17
06-11-2013, 06:32 PM
What I think is needed is for beam arrays to get some love and be given some sort of "attrition" effect that over time stacks up on the target and diminishes the effectiveness of their healing and resistance powers.

Which could even the playing field as it would make beam arrays competitive but still different enough from cannons.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,321
# 18
06-11-2013, 06:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wolf3130 View Post
sorry to say it has always been escort space and always will be that being said i still rather fly my cruiser and have a challenge then to go for the easy win and pilot an escort dont get me wrong i can pilot an escort efectivly as well in fact i did have a lvl 50 fed tac toon till the account it was on got lost escorts are realy unimportant since they arent that hard to kill even with a slow cruiser
I should have been clearer. Out of the main ships that appear in the show, the Enterprise, the Voyager and the Defiant, the Defiant class is the one main ship that performs better in PvP.

Aside from this, the JHAS is better than every other escort by a fair margin.

I's true that BFAW can do more damage than a ship with cannons, but that damage is never focused at a single target unless that target is the only ship in range. If you are an escort and the only ship in range, you have the capability to get to the rear of the ship where the BFAW effectiveness is halved. Sometimes less than half as a lot of people put a cutting beam on the rear.

I don't think that cannons shouls hit as hard as cannons, but cannons shouldn't do such high magnitudes of damage more than beams. Also, beam damage shouldn't drop off as much as it does.

Just my opinions and I'm sure that many people disagree but the beauty of forums is that we can discuss opposing views and share ideas.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,321
# 19
06-11-2013, 06:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by senatorvreenak View Post
What I think is needed is for beam arrays to get some love and be given some sort of "attrition" effect that over time stacks up on the target and diminishes the effectiveness of their healing and resistance powers.

Which could even the playing field as it would make beam arrays competitive but still different enough from cannons.
Senator Vreenak (one of my fave characters, BTW) this is an EXCELLENT idea!!! If this idea was implemented correctly there would be no nerfs required to achieve balance.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,870
# 20
06-11-2013, 07:04 PM
No, its DPS online. I can do great DPS in many types of ships, not just escorts. My Bortasqu usually wins 1st place in CE, has no problem in keeping up in DPS 5000 channel private STF matches, and is often 1st place in kills and damage in pvp. I am getting similar results in my fleet D'Deridex by using plasma infused sci consoles to make up for only having 3 tac consoles rather then the 5 the tac Bortas gets. I use DHC or beams on these ships depending on situation.

Even setting up a Fleet Assault Cruiser with a canon build using only phaser beams and quantum torpedos I can still get pretty decent dps, and almost always win SB24 with FAW spam and aux2bat.

My eng in Fleet Voquv can also do good dps using BOP refits, and will be even better once I get elite pets soon, it has no problem soloing cubes while guarding probes or killing most targets I run into in pvp, and is nearly unkillable unless heavily focused on and subnucced.

So as long as you set your ship up for dps whether by going the simple DHC route, or using aux2bat/FAW spam, or use pets you are good for most of this games content.

Unfortunatley sci ships and cruisers only set up to support and not do any dps are not useful outside of pvp and no win scenario.
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