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Commander
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 488
# 101
06-15-2013, 02:21 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by keiichi2032 View Post
Everything is a matter of degree, and in this case, its that the basic timeline of major events is canon, as approved by CBS.
We really don't know that for sure. I believe the story about CBS prompting Cryptic to make STO more compatible with the at the time forthcoming JJTrek. Beyond that, the only CBS input I've heard about is on the T5 connie, stupid as their position is given that even (or especially) they probably don't give this game more than soft canon status (hard to argue, given that they'll readily overturn "hard canon" and have done so often enough in the past).

Quote:
Originally Posted by keiichi2032 View Post
Names and events themselves are more a soft-canon, as they are open for revision based on CBS and Paramount's wishes for further continuation.
details and anything related to gameplay experience and player control are non-canon, as they have no justification from the franchise itself, and thus no basis in approved storyline, and therefore non-canon

So, as we see, there are canon, soft-canon, and non-canon elements all throughout STO. So the correct answer would be both yes and no.

There is NO reason to not include the timeline of major events into Star Trek canon, some of which are (arguably) already there.
So, Romulus is destroyed. From what I recall of 2009, that's the most specific they got regarding Hobus. Any slight additional specification is too minute to consider hard canon.

There's also a Federation-Klingon cold war going on, but not really going anywhere (this story was really weak on the Fed side; is it better on the Klingon side?).

Any other timeline notations you feel are worth considering canon? I mean, if D'Tan and the RR are soft canon, as you suggest, then I suppose the founding of NR can be considered canon, though the group that found it and its location are up for grabs.

I really don't remember there being all that much else across the STO timeline.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 129
# 102
06-15-2013, 10:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by millimidget View Post
We really don't know that for sure. I believe the story about CBS prompting Cryptic to make STO more compatible with the at the time forthcoming JJTrek. Beyond that, the only CBS input I've heard about is on the T5 connie, stupid as their position is given that even (or especially) they probably don't give this game more than soft canon status (hard to argue, given that they'll readily overturn "hard canon" and have done so often enough in the past).
I haven't said that CBS is calling it canon, because we do not know. This is a matter of us discussing whether the idea has merit, and asking if they SHOULD call (at least some of) it canon. I, for one, say yes.

As for the T5 Connie, that is a Paramount decision, not CBS. The Constitution (refit) is under the ownership of Paramount, as its appearance was in feature films, not television. And the deal Cryptic cut with Paramount is complete and utter crap, as they have to negotiate for every single little piece of the movie franchise separately, for amounts of money they just do not have.

Personally, I just think Paramount has been bitter, ever since The Motion Picture was not the epic Star Wars counter that they had hoped for.
Paid STO subscriber since December 2010, and DJ for mmo-radio
Commander
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 488
# 103
06-15-2013, 11:17 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by keiichi2032 View Post
The Constitution (refit) is under the ownership of Paramount, as its appearance was in feature films, not television.
I'm sure they just own rights to the model.

No one says a T5 connie needs to use the same model as Paramount's. I'd personally prefer if it used the skin already in-game. I don't see why it absolutely needs to use the model from JJ Trek, or (refit) in its title.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 129
# 104
06-15-2013, 01:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by millimidget View Post
I'm sure they just own rights to the model.

No one says a T5 connie needs to use the same model as Paramount's. I'd personally prefer if it used the skin already in-game. I don't see why it absolutely needs to use the model from JJ Trek, or (refit) in its title.
Its still covered under Paramount's contract, not CBS's. All Constitution variants are central to the original refit model, and you cannot have one without the other. If they tried, Paramount would certainly cause a stink about it, and Cryptic cannot afford it.
Paid STO subscriber since December 2010, and DJ for mmo-radio
Commander
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 488
# 105
06-15-2013, 02:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by keiichi2032 View Post
All Constitution variants are central to the original refit model, and you cannot have one without the other.
I'm really not following what you're saying here; Paramount owns the 2009 model, what you title the "refit." You're saying they also own all possible variants? Even the original TOS skin?

What's stopping Cryptic from offering the original TOS skin as an endgame ship? They can easily call it the Fleet Constitution, and avoid any mention of a refit.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 129
# 106
06-15-2013, 04:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by millimidget View Post
I'm really not following what you're saying here; Paramount owns the 2009 model, what you title the "refit." You're saying they also own all possible variants? Even the original TOS skin?

What's stopping Cryptic from offering the original TOS skin as an endgame ship? They can easily call it the Fleet Constitution, and avoid any mention of a refit.
No no no, by "Refit" it is not the redesign seen in 2009. It refers to the "refit" of the original Enterprise, seen on Star Trek: The Motion Picture, and then seen again on Wrath of Khan, Search for Spock, and as the 1701-A on Voyage Home, Final Frontier, and Undiscovered Country. All such feature films are under the ownership of Paramount, not CBS.
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Captain
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# 107
06-15-2013, 08:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by millimidget View Post
I can agree with that.

I wouldn't go that far. The DoW games had, by far, superior stories.
I can't say I know what DoW is? STO is pretty much the only game I play these days. To be fair some elements of the game like the 8472 being called undine or the Elachi etc could become canon. Its just STO is a video game and it is written as a video game so it is so very different from tv Star Trek and like I said multiple wars on multiple fronts plus an Iconian/ Undine infiltration is just too much.
Play more STO Foundry! (You can thank me later.)

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Commander
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 488
# 108
06-15-2013, 11:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by keiichi2032 View Post
No no no, by "Refit" it is not the redesign seen in 2009. It refers to the "refit" of the original Enterprise, seen on Star Trek: The Motion Picture, and then seen again on Wrath of Khan, Search for Spock, and as the 1701-A on Voyage Home, Final Frontier, and Undiscovered Country. All such feature films are under the ownership of Paramount, not CBS.
So the TOS skin is good to go.

I assume that's what people are looking for when they say T5 connie. Besides, doesn't Cryptic already have access to the TMP models?

Quote:
Originally Posted by lincolninspace View Post
I can't say I know what DoW is? STO is pretty much the only game I play these days. To be fair some elements of the game like the 8472 being called undine or the Elachi etc could become canon. Its just STO is a video game and it is written as a video game so it is so very different from tv Star Trek and like I said multiple wars on multiple fronts plus an Iconian/ Undine infiltration is just too much.
I agree that there are very different demands placed on this format versus something on screen. Certain considerations (*cough*T5 connie*cough*) should be made given that as a game, it isn't going to become hard canon, and abiding certain elements of canon interferes with Cryptic's ability to deliver a product players want. In the end, disappointing players doesn't serve Cryptic's, PWE's, CBS's or even Paramount's goals.

Last edited by millimidget; 06-16-2013 at 12:07 AM.
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 44
# 109
06-16-2013, 12:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lincolninspace View Post
I can't say I know what DoW is?
Dawn of War, a series of games in the Warhammer 40k universe from Relic (the guys who did the Homeworld games). The first set - Dawn of War and its expansion-sequels (Winter Assault, Dark Crusade and Soulstorm) - are base-building, army-building RTS games, whereas Dawn of War II and its expansions (Chaos Rising and Retribution) are more RPG-ish in nature.
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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 129
# 110
06-16-2013, 12:20 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by millimidget View Post
So the TOS skin is good to go.

I assume that's what people are looking for when they say T5 connie. Besides, doesn't Cryptic already have access to the TMP models?
This is part of the crappy deal that they have with Paramount. They have permission to access the TMP models ONLY as an early-level ship. In order to create a T5 retrofit, Cryptic would need permission for this craft to be used on a much larger scale than originally negotiated for. This may sound stupid... because it is. Paramount is literally treating STO as a cash cow every opportunity they get, and should Cryptic break any of the stated agreements, Paramount execs already have lawyers on speed-dial.

As for using the TOS Connie... they have the right to do so... but then we get into a situation of whether or not that would even be feasible in 2409. I mean, honestly... the idea of a T5 TOS Constitution-class is just absurd. There comes a point where it begins to break the illusion, and become nothing more than blatant fan-service. I, personally, agree with the idea of NOT making the TOS Connie a T5 or fleet retrofit.
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