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Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,203
# 21
06-12-2013, 09:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by misterde3 View Post
Yup, and I'll always hold thm in high regard.
And for atmosphere I'm afraid I'll measure all other Trek games against them.
Sad really, almost all ST games made since then pale in comparison. If only KA was as easy to mod as BC....
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# 22
06-12-2013, 09:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by darthstormstrike View Post
Illogical example. Because of the second part of that. He created it. The creator sets canon in every IP. Show one time a creator had zero input on what is canon. When you do, then your example would be logical.
It was put forward that something being fan created makes it automatically non-canon, I was merely illustrating that concept in itself is critically flawed.

The example isn't illogical, the original premise is, that fan created content cannot be canonical specifically because it was fan created is the most rubbish concept that I have ever heard.

Since CBS approves story concepts for STO, one assumes they want to keep the story at least soft canon.

I don't know of any video game based on some wider universe that considers player actions as canon from the point of main story, so the fact our players can do absurd things is pretty irrelevant to STO being canon or not.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
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# 23
06-12-2013, 09:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by drogyn1701 View Post
Plenty of people have created something just for the paycheck or other motivation than just cause they are a fan of what they've written/filmed. I read once that Thomas Harris wrote a novel he didn't particularly like (Hannibal Rising) mainly cause the movie studio that wanted to make the film threatened to have someone else do it.

Now I don't think that would apply in Gene's case, but still.

He didn't care for what he made or what the studio did with his creation? That's two different things btw.

Plus, it's different as it's part of a series. Was he not a fan of the Hannibal Lecter series? That's what the person I replied to would be equated to with Gene and Star Trek as a whole. I said the part about creating as in the IP not one story in a series.
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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 129
# 24
06-12-2013, 09:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ussberlin View Post
yes its more Canon then The Movies 11 and 12 but not more like the all 6 Series and 10 Movies
, and all books
I have to comment that the movies 11 and 12 take place in an alternate reality, which spawned off the prime timeline. So their existence is canon, but their events are their own separate canon, one having no direct impact on the other.

Quote:
Originally Posted by daan2006 View Post
nope its fan made
Many of the concepts and ideas in Star Trek, particularly TNG-on, had originally come from fans, and were incorporated into the series, and are now accepted canon. Using "fan made" is not an adequate determination.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikenight00 View Post
No, STO is not canon. The story line of this game is absolutely absurd, and would require a reworking of already established canon in order to make it work. This game is pure fan service designed to coerce you into making micro-transactions.

The inclusion of voice overs is to provide you some sense of immersion while your federation toon stands on the bridge of his/her dominion ship holding a bat'leth, while their liberated borg, Breen, Jem'hadar, and Romulan bridge officers man their stations. I think Star Trek Encyclopedias across the world would spontaneously combust if they ever tried to make any of this canon.
It is no more absurd and reworking than pretty much the entirety of the franchise which continues to contradict itself left and right. Even TOS couldn't get itself straight. While there are many little details that could stand some fine tuning and polish, the overall storyline of the Klingon War, the subsequent events of the Hobus Supernova as well as the new expansion of the story including New Romulus, and the combined storyline of the STFs (if you were to see them in their original elongated form) are perfectly fine concepts that could be included in accepted canon.

When one says "is it canon or not" they don't mean every single little tiny detail from every corner of the game. No, THATS absurd. But the primary storylines and narratives are good enough to be welcomed into the franchise, and very well should be.
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Career Officer
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# 25
06-12-2013, 09:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by daan2006 View Post
nope its fan made
That's good as it means Star Trek: Nemesis (written for the most part by John Logan, an admitted HUGE TNG fan) isn't canon either.

edited to add:

[But that also means you can de-canonize any episode written by Ronald D. Moore, as he was a HUGE TOS fan when he came to work for/write for TNG.]

See what happens when you try to over-generalize, and classify to the extreme?
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Last edited by crypticarmsman; 06-12-2013 at 09:47 AM.
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# 26
06-12-2013, 09:47 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by crypticarmsman View Post
That's good as it means Star Trek: Nemesis (written for the most part by John Logan, an admitted HUGE TNG fan) isn't canon either.
me a romulan fan do you think I really like that movie? CBS says it cannon

unless on screen or movie its not cannon end of it
Quote:
Originally Posted by macronius View Post
This! Their ability to outdo their own failures is quite impressive. If only this power could be harnessed for good.

Last edited by daan2006; 06-12-2013 at 09:53 AM.
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# 27
06-12-2013, 09:47 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by darthstormstrike View Post
He didn't care for what he made or what the studio did with his creation? That's two different things btw.

Plus, it's different as it's part of a series. Was he not a fan of the Hannibal Lecter series? That's what the person I replied to would be equated to with Gene and Star Trek as a whole. I said the part about creating as in the IP not one story in a series.
You didn't specify that in your original post. I'm sure Gene was a fan of the universe he had created. As for Harris, you'd have to ask him I guess.
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Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 763
# 28
06-12-2013, 09:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by reximuz View Post
It was put forward that something being fan created makes it automatically non-canon, I was merely illustrating that concept in itself is critically flawed.

The example isn't illogical, the original premise is, that fan created content cannot be canonical specifically because it was fan created is the most rubbish concept that I have ever heard.

Since CBS approves story concepts for STO, one assumes they want to keep the story at least soft canon.

I don't know of any video game based on some wider universe that considers player actions as canon from the point of main story, so the fact our players can do absurd things is pretty irrelevant to STO being canon or not.

Fan fic can be canon sure. Books are a prime example. In Star Trek (and Star Wars) a lot of the books come part of the canon. Star Trek actually puts a tighter grip on what their IP books can and can't do. Star Wars is more loose with it but with the understanding any and all books can be trumped by the movies (G Canon level) or even animated shows like Clone Wars (T Canon level). So if they get trumped their canon status can fall to the being non-canon completely. As a writer who would hope to make a canon novel, going Star Trek is actually safer but harder to do because how CBS does the property more tightly than Lucas did. Disney can change that of course so this news can be outdated now.

But to use the IP creator as the example of his work isn't canon is a stretch and causes a circular logic to it. That's what I'm pointing out to you. Not the overall "can fan fic be canon" part if you get my drift.
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Captain
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# 29
06-12-2013, 09:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by drogyn1701 View Post
You didn't specify that in your original post. I'm sure Gene was a fan of the universe he had created. As for Harris, you'd have to ask him I guess.

The post I replied to did that however. You apparently took what I said without taking the context of what I was replying to then.
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# 30
06-12-2013, 09:55 AM
Ok, well in any case I still think it is certainly possible to create something without being a fan of it.
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Last edited by drogyn1701; 06-12-2013 at 10:01 AM.
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