Captain
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 2,201
# 11
06-12-2013, 08:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by marc8219 View Post
An even worse idea then the atrocious Tal Shiar Lockbox/Lobi ships. Section 31 has never been shown using its own ships, nor has it ever been suggested in any episode, unlike the Tal Shiar which was at least shown to use its own ships in DS9.

S31 is much much more secretive, having their own ships and the facilities to build and mantain them, and the amount of personel involved would have exposed S31.
They are shown to maniuplate Starfleet into doing what they need done, both in DS9 and in STO. Franklin Drake wouldn't need to give you missions if he had his own forces he could send instead. Not only does S31 have no ships, their manpower is extremely limited, since its the only way to keep it secret, which is why Sloan often would have to use Bashir to do his grunt work. S31 is just like a more secretive version of the CIA, they just stick to intelligence, they don't also have the role the Tal Shiar also has of keeping the military and population controlled.

The Tal Shiar however is much more like the Soviet KGB, they don't want to completley hide their existence, since they need to be feared to control society and to control the military. They have no problem having their own fleet of ships, just as the KGB had its own ground forces.

I think using existing ships that can't be a part of any faction is better, like how they did with the Galor or D'Kora. A Breen ship or a Hirogen ship could be a possiblity.
You see the thing is it is just ONE ship - just like the temporal ship - they did not capture and sell 10,000 ships - only 1 ship - that's how cryptic explain's the multiple copies which can't be possible.

So you see it's not like Section 31 or Klingon intelligence had a whole fleet of these ships - only 1 or 2 - same reasoning as for the Temporal ships.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,289
# 12
06-12-2013, 09:24 PM
I doubt they even would have 1 ship, its never been suggested that they do. The Pegasus phase shift cloak was just a secret Starfleet project done by Rikers former captain and his crew.

Why would they need ships when they have access to all of the Federations top secret codes, they can simply manipulate Starfleet into doing what they want by posing as high ranking officers like Sloan did, or they could probably even just tap into communications and alter/falsify orders and ships would be doing missions for s31 without even realizing it.
Commander
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 460
# 13
06-12-2013, 09:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by virusdancer View Post
Wouldn't work.

The reason we have Tal Shiar ships is because of the Romulans/KDF-aligned Romulans/Fed-aligned Romulans kicking Tal Shiar butt, eh?

Section 31? They seek to defend the Federation at any cost...including eliminating everybody else (sometimes even those within the Federation) out there.

Their vessels wouldn't be available via a lockbox. Perhaps somewhere down the line, another Winter/Summer Event, another Anniversary, etc, etc, etc...there could potentially be a Section 31/Klingon Intelligence pair of ships offered, eh?

Right now we've got the Tal Shiar box, then there'll be the Risian Corvette from the Summer Event, then we'll likely see another DOFF thing with the Tuffli/JHAS, another box rerun, and then we're probably getting close to S9 or so...focus on endgame, perhaps the Sela stuff...so I'd guess the next lockbox is either going to be Elachi or Hirogen...before we get into the Winter Event, repeating stuff, the Anniversary, repeating stuff, etc, etc, etc...will be interesting to see what they do with the boxes with the idea of dropping out certain factions as playable factions down the road.

What Risian Corvette, I've heard nothing about a Risian Corvette?


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Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,732
# 14
06-12-2013, 09:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by newromulan1 View Post
I would not say they are not known too well - obviously may people in starfleet are involved with them. Adm Ross was doing their bidding as well as many other Starfleet adm - maybe even the head of starfleet.

I think they would want to advance to their own stealth ships rather than rely on starfleet. And it was shown seveal time in DS9 that the Section 31 operative Solan beamed on and off the station to nowhere that was detectable - a cloaked ship then? Also beaming off Romulus when he tried to escape - was it to a cloaked ship? If this is the case they were hardly using starfleet ships.

Playing the New KDF content and all the missions involving section 31's Drake made me think that it would be a great lock-box. P.S. Love the new KDF missions!
I did say that they likely have their own ships, but an Intrepid Class ship with a cloak in it would not be impressive enough for a lockbox ship. There is no proof that they make their own style of ships. Section 31 is all about protecting the Federation through sabotage and deception.

Having their own unique ship that people can point to saying it is a Section 31 ship is not what Section 31 is about. They are more about people not even realizing they were manipulated. So each major Starfleet ship might have a few Section 31 personnel. Captains are Section 31 personnel. The friends your Captain went to the Academy with could be Section 31 personnel. So the only time you realize you have met a Section 31 personnel is when they want you to know that you have been approached by Section 31.
Republic Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 428
# 15
06-12-2013, 10:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by virusdancer View Post
You know, if you listen to the last P1 podcast with Stahl...there's that whole CBS/Bad Robot thing that he talks about.

The following is a Section 31 ship: http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/USS_Vengeance

Just saying... /cough
FTW! +1 to this thread. A Sec. 31 Ship/Lockbox makes TOTAL sense...and it would be one that I would actually buy some keys for...unlike all the rest (I have bought Tal Shiar keys).

P.S. Into Darkness was the BEST TREK MOVIE EVER!!
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Captain
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 2,201
# 16
06-12-2013, 10:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by thetanine View Post
FTW! +1 to this thread. A Sec. 31 Ship/Lockbox makes TOTAL sense...and it would be one that I would actually buy some keys for...unlike all the rest (I have bought Tal Shiar keys).

P.S. Into Darkness was the BEST TREK MOVIE EVER!!
I agree - I just think the Next lock-box should be Fed/KDF focased. Everything lately has been for the Romulans - I am fine with that - 3 new Romulan toons and 7 C-store ships - but I am sure there are a good amount of Fed and KDF players that would like a new ship - and we know the next C-store ship will be the Scimitar(yeah baby!!)

This just makes more sense to give the Fed/KDF something right now instead of more Romulan stuff like a Hirogen or Elachi lock-box.
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 606
# 17
06-12-2013, 10:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by newromulan1 View Post
I agree - I just think the Next lock-box should be Fed/KDF focased. Everything lately has been for the Romulans - I am fine with that - 3 new Romulan toons and 7 C-store ships - but I am sure there are a good amount of Fed and KDF players that would like a new ship - and we know the next C-store ship will be the Scimitar(yeah baby!!)

This just makes more sense to give the Fed/KDF something right now instead of more Romulan stuff like a Hirogen or Elachi lock-box.
You do realize he isn't serious, right?
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,353
# 18
06-12-2013, 11:01 PM
Using the "We got Tal Shiar boxes" as an argument for getting Section 31 boxes doesn't really work.


See, everyone knows the Tal Shiar are real, most powers in the Alpha and Beta quadrants have some record of them eith through direct interactions or second hand.

Everyone knows the Tal Shiar exist.




Section 31... hell even the agents purporting to be from Section 31 don't always sound too convinced about it.


The Tal Shiar are a secretive high rank branch of the Romulan Empires military.


Section 31 is a shadow organization of the truest type. They don't have a central base, they don't have dedicated ships, they use what's around and take advantage of captains or planted agents to get ships into position.


If there were ever a Section 31 box it wouldn't contain a ship. It would at best contain insanely powerful consoles that have a 20 hour cooldown and weapons that make a Varon-T look like a water pistol.
Captain
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 2,201
# 19
06-12-2013, 11:25 PM
I don't think it's stated anywhere that section 31 does not deploy it's own ships. This ship would have to be powerful and sneaky if they did - hence deploying the phased battle cloak. Like I said there are several instances in DS9 where sloan seemed to beam in or out of the station from??? where - a cloaked ship?? Never really stated. So STO could make up anything they wanted.

Dan Stahl has already said at some point they will start deploying their own conceived and designed ships to the game. I think the timeships were a step in that direction.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,732
# 20
06-12-2013, 11:52 PM
I see Section 31 being implemented as a reputation not a lockbox. However, it would be different from other reputations where it has a corresponding opposite reputation where that rep would be more concerned about morality. Doing Section 31 rep could either prevent you from doing the opposite rep or make it harder so getting to Tier 5 in the other rep would cost 200,000 rep instead of 100,000. It could have a console where it gives a 5 minute cooldown on a phased battle cloak.
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