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# 31
06-14-2013, 03:20 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hasukurobi View Post
[...]
You are correct that Cruisers can deal more DPS than an Escort [...]
Could someone please enlighten me how a ship with 2 tactical consoles, using single beams, can possibly do more damage than an escort with 5 tactical consoles, using Dual Heavy Cannons and turrets?

Because, uhm, it is quite unintuitive that the ship with less mathematical damage potential should do more damage. Or should I say, complete nonsense?
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Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,069
# 32
06-14-2013, 03:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hasukurobi View Post
Eeehhh... I am still waiting to see FAW mean something other than Fail At Will. I mean it is good for spam clearing but the actual damage it produces is notably weak. Even if you are doing with DBB you really need to be hitting frequent Crits with Antiprotons to see any sort of real damage.

You are correct that Cruisers can deal more DPS than an Escort but that Escorts have much higher Burst Damage. However... DPS in PvP is irrelevant. I know I will get chewed on for this but let us be honest... If you can dish out 10K DPS as a constant that is all fine and well but a good tank can tank it all day long. You need that 80K direct to hull at a moment's notice if you really want to blow a ship up. This is even noticeable in PvE.


Carriers though... Those are not to be in this conversation... Carriers are a TOTALLY different monster and trust me... They can perform both DPS and Spike if you know what you are doing and they are utter BEASTS. They turn like Moons but they do not NEED to be facing you.

People use them to win purple stuffs in fleet events (pve) and to clean spam (by doing beam spam lol ) in pvp.
Yes people time their spike damage in pvp.damage over time means nothing now thanks to 1000 rep passives.Sure is good for cleaning pets ,spamming attack engines or apb ,but you cant use that damage for spike damage e.g between 2 TT

Quote:
Originally Posted by sophlogimo View Post
Could someone please enlighten me how a ship with 2 tactical consoles, using single beams, can possibly do more damage than an escort with 5 tactical consoles, using Dual Heavy Cannons and turrets?

Because, uhm, it is quite unintuitive that the ship with less mathematical damage potential should do more damage. Or should I say, complete nonsense?
Aux2bat ,marion doff ,dem ,borg cutting beam with FAW will outdps any escort ,at least in the parser.Why you think technician doffs cost more than weapons

I personally dont like that because (again IMO) cruisers should be tanky .I want a role (as in maps ,game modes) for a tank not to turn a tank into a escort.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 595
# 33
06-14-2013, 03:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sophlogimo View Post
Could someone please enlighten me how a ship with 2 tactical consoles, using single beams, can possibly do more damage than an escort with 5 tactical consoles, using Dual Heavy Cannons and turrets?

Because, uhm, it is quite unintuitive that the ship with less mathematical damage potential should do more damage. Or should I say, complete nonsense?
not so unintuitive...
I do not know how exctally it works, cause I do not fly cruisers... however, remeber that some cruisers have 3 tactical consoles, beam array have a wide firing angle, BFaW hits multiple targets at the some time, there are fleet threat scaling consoles which give 9% extra plasma energy weapons damage... Some fleetmates of mine can deal about 18-20k dps in pve scenarios..
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# 34
06-14-2013, 04:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by adrianm63 View Post
[...]
Aux2bat ,marion doff ,dem ,borg cutting beam with FAW will outdps any escort ,at least in the parser.
Seriously, I doubt it. A Kumari with 5 DHC's and 5 tac consoles of the appropriate type will still do more if the captain has spent an equivalent amount of energy credits/Dilithium/Zen, and built in the same "damage is what shows in the logs, even if it is just Cannon Scatter Volley" mindset.
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# 35
06-14-2013, 04:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sophlogimo View Post
Could someone please enlighten me how a ship with 2 tactical consoles, using single beams, can possibly do more damage than an escort with 5 tactical consoles, using Dual Heavy Cannons and turrets?

Because, uhm, it is quite unintuitive that the ship with less mathematical damage potential should do more damage. Or should I say, complete nonsense?
Everything is said in generalizations and things aren't true for all cases.

A 2 tac console cruiser with a lack of tactical Boff stations isn't going to out DPS anything, in the exact same maner a escort without engineering boff stations and consoles isn't going to tank at all.

A 3-4 tac console and lt cmd tac cruiser with 8 weapons and using beams can often out DPS an escort. They can't out burst damage an escort. But over the course of the match they can certainly be on target far more often, and using BFaW be able to hit a lot more than a scatter volley can..
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# 36
06-14-2013, 04:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by nicha0 View Post
Everything is said in generalizations and things aren't true for all cases.
Or rather, it is only true in very specific cases.

Quote:
A 3-4 tac console and lt cmd tac cruiser with 8 weapons and using beams can often out DPS an escort. They can't out burst damage an escort. But over the course of the match they can certainly be on target far more often, and using BFaW be able to hit a lot more than a scatter volley can..
Ah, so we are talking about Cruiser/escort hybrids here, a few very special cases like the Fleet Torkaht, the Regent or the Tactical BortasQ'. But the abovementioned generalizations are rather not helpful here, when the question is as the subject sais.

In essence: No, you don't have to take an escort, you can always use a cruiser that is almost like an escort.
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Captain
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Posts: 562
# 37
06-14-2013, 05:15 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sophlogimo View Post
In essence: No, you don't have to take an escort, you can always use a cruiser that is almost like an escort.
Those ships are nothing like escorts, unless having a Lt.Cmdr. Tac slot is THE defining feature of an escort... no it's not. What was that about generalizations?
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# 38
06-14-2013, 05:19 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by arcademaster View Post
Those ships are nothing like escorts, unless having a Lt.Cmdr. Tac slot is THE defining feature of an escort... no it's not. What was that about generalizations?
They have higher turn rate, more tactical boff slots and more tactical consoles than regular cruisers. How are they not escort-cruiser hybrids?
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Promote what you love, instead of bashing what you hate.
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Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 562
# 39
06-14-2013, 05:36 AM
Klingon ships are battlecruisers and are a different kind of ship entirely, and the Regent has average cruiser layouts, only with a tac focused boff layout. Everything else isn't more escort-ish than any other cruiser. The Galaxy is the worst cruiser in the game, it's not a good example on cruiser stats. You can do the kind of good damage people have been talking about with Fleet Excelsiors, Tactical Odysseys, Galors, D'deridex' etc.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
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# 40
06-14-2013, 05:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sophlogimo View Post
In essence: No, you don't have to take an escort, you can always use a cruiser that is almost like an escort.
Actually, the "generalization" was a statement of absolute fact - a "Cruiser" CAN out DPS an "Escort". The fact that this event won't always happen does not, in anyway, make the statement untrue. Your quibble is that there are certain scenarios that make the event more or less likely, but so what? That doesn't make the initial claim invalid.

Also, your rule could just as easily be stated as: "If you want to do a large amount of damage, you should choose a ship designed for that role", which I would argue is both intuitive and non-controversial.

This is just going to circle back to where this discussion always goes - A certain subset of players will always feel like the only way to have "fun" in the game is to be objectively better than other players, and they latch on to DPS as the way to measure skill, and then complain that the game is not balanced, because not every option in the game supports that playstyle equally.
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