Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 151
01-26-2010, 05:57 AM
Turning Vsync on is more like doing /maxFPS 60 (if your monitor has a 60hz refresh rate). A dev posted elsewhere that /perframesleep isn't the same as /maxFPS. (or vsync).

My guess is the perframe sleep adds wait cycles to each frame, letting it cool off. vsync and maxfps try to force the game into a more regular refresh rate, which may add a lot of waits if it's not busy, or none if it's in a busy area.

My guess would be the /perframesleep would help cool the card in more general circumstances, but might slow the game more. But Im not a dev, so can't be sure.

However, swapping my new ATI 4890 out for older, much bigger two nVidia 8800 GTXs solved my overheating problems (with bigger, more heat producing, more air blocking hardware?) and it runs faster. Like it or not, I think this indicates STO has some ATI unfriendly code in there, in some manner.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 152
01-26-2010, 05:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spots

However, swapping my new ATI 4890 out for older, much bigger two nVidia 8800 GTXs solved my overheating problems (with bigger, more heat producing, more air blocking hardware?) and it runs faster. Like it or not, I think this indicates STO has some ATI unfriendly code in there, in some manner.
ITs all down to how the original engine was optimized. very rarely they a game will run the same on both ati and nvidia. But with some patches to the sourcecode this can be sorted at a later date.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 153
01-26-2010, 06:31 AM
So we've figured out that there are 2 problems.

1. The overheating issue is the fault of the user.

2. The overuse of hardware is STO's fault.

sarcasm There is no way to fix any of this! /sarcasm ..
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 154
01-26-2010, 06:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RIP-Gallows
So we've figured out that there are 2 problems.

1. The overheating issue is the fault of the user.

2. The overuse of hardware is STO's fault.

sarcasm There is no way to fix any of this! /sarcasm ..
While STO does, under certain circumstances, over-utilize hardware on some computers (with a common thread that has yet to be identified), let's not overstate the issue. STO will still run on a fairly broad array of hardware. It runs just fine on machines with single-core CPUs from the Netburst/K8 generation, and will function adequately on almost any SM3.0 capable GPU in existence, including the latest generation of integrated GPUs. That's very impressive for this game. People need to remember that this isn't World of ******** here; this game features a lot more eye candy, from HDR lighting to ambient occlusion to relatively high-polygon objects, and even with these turned down or off (minus the last one), the game is still going to be relatively demanding.

There is an issue with over-utilization, but as you point out, on a properly-cooled system, this should be no issue, especially as it doesn't keep the game from being run on an impressive array of machines (though God help you if you have the over-utilization glitch on a Netburst-based CPU ).
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 155
01-26-2010, 07:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scay
I didnt say 100 FPS will damage your card, I said 100 FPS is an absolutely useless framerate that should never be produced. STO will produce FPS in the 1000th which may damage a weaker system though.
Scay, Catamount stated why your statements are wrong. It's not a matter of opinion, it's a matter of fact. Processors and chips are not damaged by processing full loads for even extended periods of time. If what you state is true then all processors would have process thread kills to limit it from getting a full load. And that's just silly.

Games can't damage your hardware, but defective hardware can corrupt files. It's a one-way street.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Catamount View Post
Scay's logic seems to work something like this: STO is made to run on the PC platform, and grandma's Celeron-based Emachines PC with a Geforce 6150 is PC, therefore STO must be made to run on grandma's computer. It's a classic undistributed middle fallacy.
Indeed.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 156
01-26-2010, 07:28 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spots
Turning Vsync on is more like doing /maxFPS 60 (if your monitor has a 60hz refresh rate). A dev posted elsewhere that /perframesleep isn't the same as /maxFPS. (or vsync).

My guess is the perframe sleep adds wait cycles to each frame, letting it cool off. vsync and maxfps try to force the game into a more regular refresh rate, which may add a lot of waits if it's not busy, or none if it's in a busy area.

My guess would be the /perframesleep would help cool the card in more general circumstances, but might slow the game more. But Im not a dev, so can't be sure.

However, swapping my new ATI 4890 out for older, much bigger two nVidia 8800 GTXs solved my overheating problems (with bigger, more heat producing, more air blocking hardware?) and it runs faster. Like it or not, I think this indicates STO has some ATI unfriendly code in there, in some manner.
Thank you. I suspected they where different. I tried vsync on and the /perframeratesleep together and it does run a bit cooler. I'm running between 67 and 73C now solid. No lockups or wierdness on my GTX285. I shifted some things around and increased my cooling as well. When I started I was running from 79-85 and getting the odd lockup now and then.

Personally I like the fact this particular software drew attention to a flaw in my system where it really did need a little extra cooling. Nvidia really needs to do a better job on auto adjusting the fan speed as temp goes up. If it was not STO it would have been another program that pointed this out. I always try and balance cooling with noise and I had sacreficed a little to much cooling for less noise. Looking at my fan specs, I think I can get the same CFM for half the noise if I pick up a few nice Silenex case fans.

Your average user probably never messing with their case cooling or cleans it out for that matter. I would not have configured this software the way they have with that in mind. I'd remove the vsync button, leave it on and be able to override it with a software switch for the folks who like to tinker and tweak.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 157
01-26-2010, 09:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CapnScragg View Post
Thank you. I suspected they where different. I tried vsync on and the /perframeratesleep together and it does run a bit cooler. I'm running between 67 and 73C now solid. No lockups or wierdness on my GTX285. I shifted some things around and increased my cooling as well. When I started I was running from 79-85 and getting the odd lockup now and then.

Personally I like the fact this particular software drew attention to a flaw in my system where it really did need a little extra cooling. Nvidia really needs to do a better job on auto adjusting the fan speed as temp goes up. If it was not STO it would have been another program that pointed this out. I always try and balance cooling with noise and I had sacreficed a little to much cooling for less noise. Looking at my fan specs, I think I can get the same CFM for half the noise if I pick up a few nice Silenex case fans.

Your average user probably never messing with their case cooling or cleans it out for that matter. I would not have configured this software the way they have with that in mind. I'd remove the vsync button, leave it on and be able to override it with a software switch for the folks who like to tinker and tweak.
A few Geforce cards really do tend to run rather hot, though, to be honest, 85C shouldn't be too bad for a GTX285. That said, if you got that down to the low 70s, then that's very good, because that's that much less heat that builds up inside your case. You're definitely right about fan speeds though, at least from a few vendors, as they seem to go too far to keep things quiet instead of cool. My Radeon HD 5770s never get out of the 60s except in Furmark, which gets them up to the 80s, and that's fine, because I wouldn't worry about these GPUs until they hit 100 or so, but I am somewhat dismayed that even in the mid 80s the fans don't spin up to 100% (they hit about 90% at 86C, which is the present maximum I've gotten on these cards). I don't really want my GPUs waiting until they hit 90-95C before they go full blast.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 158
01-26-2010, 12:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Catamount View Post
A few Geforce cards really do tend to run rather hot, though, to be honest, 85C shouldn't be too bad for a GTX285. That said, if you got that down to the low 70s, then that's very good, because that's that much less heat that builds up inside your case. You're definitely right about fan speeds though, at least from a few vendors, as they seem to go too far to keep things quiet instead of cool. My Radeon HD 5770s never get out of the 60s except in Furmark, which gets them up to the 80s, and that's fine, because I wouldn't worry about these GPUs until they hit 100 or so, but I am somewhat dismayed that even in the mid 80s the fans don't spin up to 100% (they hit about 90% at 86C, which is the present maximum I've gotten on these cards). I don't really want my GPUs waiting until they hit 90-95C before they go full blast.
85C is within the operating temp of a GTX 285 but... I was getting odd lockups that I suspected where related to the temp. Honestly though they patched the game so many times the last week I will never know for sure.

That's great your ATI is running that cool. I know the 4850 cards where running quite a bit hotter. I think the 4850 I had idled around 70C. I'm a self professed Nvidia fan boy but now and then if I find a deal on an ATI card I'll get one and play with it a few months.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 159
01-27-2010, 04:42 AM
I run my game on a Ati 4870X2 and my card is almost always trying to fry itself when running STO.
I used to run everything on max but the game crashed a lot of times so I set the graphics back to recommend settings. It is running fine now.

( there is no way my case is diry cause A its new and B its a Silverstone Raven Rv01 so the motherboard and al cards are positioned different from normal ATX sollutions. )

I will try and see if I can run the game at full power when the game goes live though.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 160
01-27-2010, 07:17 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShockWave_Omega View Post
I run my game on a Ati 4870X2 and my card is almost always trying to fry itself when running STO.
I used to run everything on max but the game crashed a lot of times so I set the graphics back to recommend settings. It is running fine now.

( there is no way my case is diry cause A its new and B its a Silverstone Raven Rv01 so the motherboard and al cards are positioned different from normal ATX sollutions. )

I will try and see if I can run the game at full power when the game goes live though.
The 4870 X2 is also one of the hottest and most power hungry video cards with dual GPUs.
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