Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 71 What?!? Is logic gone?
01-23-2010, 04:10 PM
Okay,

I must throw some logic on to this fire of ignorance. I had a problem where my system was going to black screen and crashing after only playing for 30 minutes. Just before the Beta opened all of it's areas there was a patch. This patch caused my crashes to stop. Then there was a patch after the game opened up and now my crashes are back. Every game I have bought and played on this machine has run blazing fast and smooth. Yet this game (whose graphics look like a late 90's game) somehow causes my system to catastrophically overheat. Wow 1+1 = 2. Oh no Wait! That's right you guys are smarter then someone who actually works at a help desk. For the love of good get your heads out of your arse. My problem is a prime example of something software causing the issue. Before the patch solved my problems I tried every suggestion under the sun to fix my problem and nothing worked. Please give constructive criticism and help and not fan boy platitudes please.

Dell XPS 420
Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Quad CPU Q9300 @ 2.50GHz (4 CPUs), ~2.5GHz
3.5 gigs of RAM
Windows Vista
NVIDIA GeForce 8800 GT
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 72
01-23-2010, 05:32 PM
crashing due to heat and crashing due to driver/game problems are two different things. You should find another thread for your issue ;-)
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 73
01-23-2010, 05:50 PM
QUOTE FOR TRUTH AND EMPHASIS: Multiple people here with IT DEGREES are telling you this but you think you know better. Read it again.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Implausible
Thermal issues:
Here is the break down with thermal (overheating) related issues. First off like most of the new generation games, Star Trek online is using a higher amount of CPU, memory, and GPU power to play. What this means is since a larger percentage of your hardware is utilized so there is an increase the amount of heat is going to be generated from your system. CPUs and GPUs are designed by default to be capable of running at 100% for longer periods of time, and this is something software and hardware developers test for. So a system running at 100% is completely acceptable, and should not cause issues.

So with this information in mind here are the most common causes for over heating systems.

Dirty case:
You computer can accumulate a large amount of dust from prolonged use. Cleaning your case with compressed air cans (That are designed for cleaning computers; DO NOT USE A COMPRESSOR) on a regular basis can help keep your system healthy. Refrain from using any type of cloth, paper towel, or fluids to clean you system. Make sure you use antistatic devices any time when you open your case to reduce the risk of damaging your hardware.

Insufficient Cooling:

In many instances the fans that are provided with your computer are the bare minimum for cooling. This is especially true if you have added new hardware to your system (I.E. Aftermarket graphics cards, additional hard drives, additional memory), and most of the time the default cooling cannot make up for the increase in heat. These issues can be resolved by adding more fans, larger fans, or different types of cooling systems to your case. If modifying your cooling systems is not an option there are cases available on the retail market that can provide additional or different cooling options.

Over clocking your system:
Over clocking is a method that is used by many advanced computer users to attempt to access more of the systems performance power by pushing the components beyond the factory limits. When you over clock a system there is a dramatic increase in system heat as your components are working harder than intended. If this increase in heat is not accounted for when you over clock system this can lead to hardware failure or abnormal functionality. We do not support over clocking as it can produce unseen issues and failures. If you are experiencing issues with Star Trek online and your system is over clocked please reset your system to the factory defaults. With the system at the factory defaults try to reproduce the issue, and it no longer appears then over clocking may have been the culprit.

If none of these factors apply to your situation please feel free to contact our tech support department.

http://www.startrekonline.com/support
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 74
01-23-2010, 06:36 PM
"Dirty case:
You computer can accumulate a large amount of dust from prolonged use. Cleaning your case with compressed air cans (That are designed for cleaning computers; DO NOT USE A COMPRESSOR) on a regular basis can help keep your system healthy. Refrain from using any type of cloth, paper towel, or fluids to clean you system. Make sure you use antistatic devices any time when you open your case to reduce the risk of damaging your hardware."

First thing I did when this started was clean my case out.


"Insufficient Cooling:
In many instances the fans that are provided with your computer are the bare minimum for cooling. This is especially true if you have added new hardware to your system (I.E. Aftermarket graphics cards, additional hard drives, additional memory), and most of the time the default cooling cannot make up for the increase in heat. These issues can be resolved by adding more fans, larger fans, or different types of cooling systems to your case. If modifying your cooling systems is not an option there are cases available on the retail market that can provide additional or different cooling options."

If this were the case do you not think I would come across this problem with other recent games?

"Over clocking your system:
Over clocking is a method that is used by many advanced computer users to attempt to access more of the systems performance power by pushing the components beyond the factory limits. When you over clock a system there is a dramatic increase in system heat as your components are working harder than intended. If this increase in heat is not accounted for when you over clock system this can lead to hardware failure or abnormal functionality. We do not support over clocking as it can produce unseen issues and failures. If you are experiencing issues with Star Trek online and your system is over clocked please reset your system to the factory defaults. With the system at the factory defaults try to reproduce the issue, and it no longer appears then over clocking may have been the culprit."

Overclocking is not a problem because I have never believed in it or wanted nor needed to do it.



P.S. Degrees only mean you went to school and learned what the teachers told you. It gives you no common sense or real world experience. If I am the problem tell what I can do! I want to enjoy your game. i want to play it. After 10 posts and like 3 bug reports without an answer I am not a happy customer.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 75
01-23-2010, 06:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Implausible
Thermal issues:
Here is the break down with thermal (overheating) related issues. First off like most of the new generation games, Star Trek online is using a higher amount of CPU, memory, and GPU power to play.
Whoa, are you putting STO on the same scale as current generation PC games? I mean like Crysis, Source, or Unreal 3? That's a pretty huge claim for an engine that has, never, come close to the presentation skills of modern generation engines. Don't get me wrong, Cryptic's engine isn't bad for a MMO, but for the love of God and all that is holy please don't compare yourself with brilliant engines unless you're being honest.

It's not like any other game is burning out video cards here.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 76
01-23-2010, 07:58 PM
My card runs in the mid 50's with STO in windowed mode with all settings jacked up max and no fps cap.

So if it's not frying MY card.. then obviously it's not STO. If it was STO.. it would be everyone's cards.

Such a tiny tiny thread for a problem some people seem to say affects everyone. Out of 50 thousand plus testers and this is all that people can come up with numbers wise?

LAWL!!! The "I want a del taco shuttle" thread is WAAAAY bigger than this one.(1,421 replies as of now)


Get over it. Get over yourselves. Something isn't right on YOUR end. Period.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 77
01-23-2010, 08:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dryden88 View Post
P.S. Degrees only mean you went to school and learned what the teachers told you. It gives you no common sense or real world experience. If I am the problem tell what I can do! I want to enjoy your game. i want to play it. After 10 posts and like 3 bug reports without an answer I am not a happy customer.
IT degrees can be very grueling. In two of my classes, I was the only one left that didn't drop out of the class. Maybe in some fields you can get by, but in IT there are things you absolutely must learn. People are not just going to be able to google stuff and get the knowledge they need to be competitive in the IT job market.

I can't sit here and tell you how to do everything. There are just way too many people with different systems to put down a blanket statement. The BIGGEST advice I can give is to ensure that you should have dealt with your cooling issues during the build phase of your project. The case, PSU, fans, slot location, drive location.. all these things have to be taken into account if you're going to correctly ensure proper "positive ventilation". I think some people have brand name PC's and are complaining about overheating without realizing that these retail models are not usually designed for "high-end" gaming. The cooling capability is just not there. That is why companies offer products specifically marketed to the "high-end" gaming market. Also, it's usually not viable for them to produce a line of hard-core gaming computers, as many of us simply build our own anyway.

My system is very cool and I'm pushing it with STO for all it's got. What's the downside to it? It sounds like a 747 trying to take off and that can be annoying at first, but you get used to it.

With all the heat issues these days, liquid cooling is becoming more prevalent because positive ventilation is only going to get you so far. Most people don't need such an expensive or elaborate cooling system, but I'm sure in the next 10 years it will become far more common and standard to see.

Once you build a system that you think can handle it, you should always use testing software to burn-in and test your equipment (such as furmark mentioned already). You should regularly monitor your temps and stability and if there is any question, you should immediately rethink your cooling solution. You can find cards on the market for 20 bucks that are twin fans in the shape of a card that fit into a PCI slot and blow directly on your GPU to assist in cooling. You can purchase a case that is specifically for cooling. Bear in mind, just because it SAYS it's for cooling doesn't mean it's all that efficient. You'll want plenty of fans, but the most important thing is fan placement and airflow vector. You don't want many obstructions and certainly having your hard drive(s) parked right in front of your 120mm front fan kinda negates the whole purpose. Some PSU's also only have one exhaust fan in the rear. For assistance in cooling (a bit) you can purchase one that has a fan on the bottom of the PSU that pulls air in, and the one on the back that blows it out. This helps to reduce heat buildup that is caused by convection and conduction. Thermal radiation isn't an issue with PC's so you can rule that one out.

Also another point to make is ensuring that you have ample space around your comp. You can't just take a case that needs good airflow and shove it in a corner or other tight space and expect it to work well. The ambient air around the case can increase in temperature and that increase will also increase the temperature of the air going into the machine to begin with. The rule of thumb here is 3 feet in front of and behind the system needs to be open. On the sides it really doesn't matter unless you have a velocity stack on the side of the case or a fan, in which case you will also want at least 2-3 feet of clearance. That is not my opinion.. that is industry standard according to Cisco.

If you have any specific questions or would like to take screenshots and PM me the link, I have no problem with helping out people and making suggestions to those who are willing to listen and try. For those with a closed mind and cannot do anything but blame STO, don't waste my time.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 78
01-23-2010, 09:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sulda View Post
So if it's not frying MY card.. then obviously it's not STO. If it was STO.. it would be everyone's cards.

(...)

Get over it. Get over yourselves. Something isn't right on YOUR end. Period.
Quoted for truth. Overheating is an issue specific to someone's PC, not an application's responsibility.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 79 Ahem!
01-23-2010, 09:45 PM
Well would you look at that. After this latest server maintenance and patch my Pc is running STO just fine. Wow. My 7 years of Tech Suppot and help desk mean nothing I guess in diagnosing this issue. I mean I wasn't saying it had something to do with the game or anything. You know saying I told you say doesn't seem to cut it in this case. But I told you so.

To all of you doubting me let me make this clear. Crysis and many other high end graphics gulping games run blazing fast on my PC. Were you honestly comparing all these games to STO? What on this gods green earth could this game be doing to cause a high end card to skyrocket in temperature. All recommendations have been checked and double check and you still say it is the expensive high end name brand PC? For the love of god I hope you are not supporting anyone's hardware at a company. Dev's I am not talking to you in this instance.

But for the Dev's info. Whatever was in the 01/23/10 patch solved my black screen and freezing of my PC. I thank you.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 80
01-23-2010, 10:05 PM
have any of you blowe the dust out of your heat senks. yes you say you blow the case aout but i mean put the can of air tube wright in to the heat senk fins . if the fins get cloged it can not cool .
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