Captain
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 1,061
# 21
06-14-2013, 02:03 PM
The solution is to ban premades from public pvp queues knowing that many premades are the source of the majority of griefs in pvp. Preamdes can arrange private pvp queues as they see fit but public pvp queues should be reserved for PuG only. Members of the same fleet / team can embark on public queues but they shouldn't be guaranteed to end up in same match or even same side.

I have seen very few preamdes in pvp, since LoR, maybe it has something to do with the way they revamp the queues. If so, that's a good thing. Some of the premades are just nasty. I think they should be identified and publicly shamed though am unsure if this is allowed under forum rules.
Commander
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 292
# 22
06-14-2013, 02:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by iskandus View Post
The solution is to ban premades from public pvp queues knowing that many premades are the source of the majority of griefs in pvp. Preamdes can arrange private pvp queues as they see fit but public pvp queues should be reserved for PuG only. Members of the same fleet / team can embark on public queues but they shouldn't be guaranteed to end up in same match or even same side.

I have seen very few preamdes in pvp, since LoR, maybe it has something to do with the way they revamp the queues. If so, that's a good thing. Some of the premades are just nasty. I think they should be identified and publicly shamed though am unsure if this is allowed under forum rules.
Publicly shaming people isn't really going to fix the problem, not to mention its similar behavior in most formats, and that some griefers feed off it.

Some of this is thin skin, some, there is a certain amount of trash talking in head to head competition, to both psyche up your side, and psyche out the other, but the line between acceptable and not can be very fine, and some people take it very personally, while others cross the line and take it too far.

And lets be honest, and I'm not saying this is the majority of the pvp crowd, but PvP attracts certain elements, depending on the game, and nature, with typically the worst elements being attracted to pvp were the victims have no choice but to be pvp, though honestly they put them selves in that game to start with in those cases.

But the trash talking aside the sportsmanship is gone, or going. good sportsman win and loose graciously, they enjoy their victories, and the challenges they over came, but without rubbing it in peoples faces.

But in both pvp and pve you have whole groups of people who are "look at me, look at me" or who are only spoiling for a fight, or to hurt someone else, or basically troll for their own personal amusement, or to make them selves feel good.

PvP gets a really bad rep due to these sorts because honestly what's considered griefing, or out of line is far different then what it would be in a pve environment. So the enforcement tends to be different if behavior is enforced at all, and they can get away with being anywhere from mildly abusive to highly abusive to other players.

The only real way to police them is to shun them, sometime pointing out their behavior, a form of shaming them publicly. but you can likely do far more good by shunning them and just picking up those that they have trashed, put down and or hurt, dusting them off, and getting them back on their feet. They are more likely to stick around pvp, even if they end up casual, if they know some people will be helpful, offer advise and encouragement, even when someone else is slamming them and knocking them down.

It can take a thousand kindnesses for someone to remember, but only one slight for them to never forget. And while that's a bit of a exaggeration, it is the sort of stigma and uphill battle the good side of the pvp community has to slog through.

Last edited by verline1; 06-14-2013 at 02:55 PM.
Captain
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 2,163
# 23
06-14-2013, 02:55 PM
Ok naming no names - but saying they were experience and well known PvP elite(cough) players. Some who I have seen on these forums.

The other day I was in a C/H and got put on a team with 4 others - on the other side there were 4 players but 2 decided to AFK.

Ok so I was flying my cloaked ship and had no need to help these Jem bugs out as they destroyed the 2 others in seconds every time they came out. Usually 1 destroyed the 2 ships while the other 3 capped - then they switched who whould be the killing ship.

What I did have time to do was follow them around and watch there powers/buffs/weapons going off.

I don't film anything - could not care that much - but they were going off like crazy - even without a enemy destroyed they would still cycle a bit. I was convinced after 5 min of watching that they were totally automated and only had to push fire and manuver their ships.

Of course it could just have been some super fancy keybinds and normally I am so engaged in the battle I don't have 5 min to follow players around and watch them before - I don't know - but it really made me go - WTF??
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,325
# 24
06-14-2013, 03:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by newromulan1 View Post
Ok naming no names - but saying they were experience and well known PvP elite(cough) players. Some who I have seen on these forums.

The other day I was in a C/H and got put on a team with 4 others - on the other side there were 4 players but 2 decided to AFK.

Ok so I was flying my cloaked ship and had no need to help these Jem bugs out as they destroyed the 2 others in seconds every time they came out. Usually 1 destroyed the 2 ships while the other 3 capped - then they switched who whould be the killing ship.

What I did have time to do was follow them around and watch there powers/buffs/weapons going off.

I don't film anything - could not care that much - but they were going off like crazy - even without a enemy destroyed they would still cycle a bit. I was convinced after 5 min of watching that they were totally automated and only had to push fire and manuver their ships.

Of course it could just have been some super fancy keybinds and normally I am so engaged in the battle I don't have 5 min to follow players around and watch them before - I don't know - but it really made me go - WTF??
C&H, a great place to get ganked from cloak. Which is why I tend spam my SPACEBAR when taking points alone as I'm at least defending myself to some extent from cloaked alphas.
Captain
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 2,163
# 25
06-14-2013, 03:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by aquitaine985 View Post
C&H, a great place to get ganked from cloak. Which is why I tend spam my SPACEBAR when taking points alone as I'm at least defending myself to some extent from cloaked alphas.
That could be the answer.
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,416
# 26
06-14-2013, 03:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by iskandus View Post
The solution is to ban premades from public pvp queues knowing that many premades are the source of the majority of griefs in pvp. Preamdes can arrange private pvp queues as they see fit but public pvp queues should be reserved for PuG only. Members of the same fleet / team can embark on public queues but they shouldn't be guaranteed to end up in same match or even same side.

I have seen very few preamdes in pvp, since LoR, maybe it has something to do with the way they revamp the queues. If so, that's a good thing. Some of the premades are just nasty. I think they should be identified and publicly shamed though am unsure if this is allowed under forum rules.
the problem is, a "premade" is defined differently to everyone.

how would it be fair to clup together a group of friends who just like playing together into the same catagory as a group of seasoned pvp'rs who are loaded for bear?

what about if its only 2 "premade" people on the team and they carry their team to victory?

does that automatically make nayone else on their team evil premaders too?

too many grey areas in something as stupid as "banning premades from the pubic que"

not all premades are equal either. ive seen plenty of premades lose to a ragtag group of people from the opvp chat channel, ive even been in matches where completely randomly i end up with other pvp'rs who know what theyre doing and we get called a premade.

so yeah...
Quote:
Originally Posted by mancom View Post
Frankly, I think the only sound advice that one can give new players at this time is to stay away from PVP in STO.
Science pvp at its best-http://www.youtube.com/user/matteo716
Do you even Science Bro?
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,758
# 27
06-14-2013, 06:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by iskandus View Post
The solution is to ban premades from public pvp queues knowing that many premades are the source of the majority of griefs in pvp. Preamdes can arrange private pvp queues as they see fit but public pvp queues should be reserved for PuG only. Members of the same fleet / team can embark on public queues but they shouldn't be guaranteed to end up in same match or even same side.

I have seen very few preamdes in pvp, since LoR, maybe it has something to do with the way they revamp the queues. If so, that's a good thing. Some of the premades are just nasty. I think they should be identified and publicly shamed though am unsure if this is allowed under forum rules.

No, the solution is to become social and make some friends to team up. Not to punish those who are social, 1v1guy.


Click here and here if you are interested in learning more about PvP.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,758
# 28
06-14-2013, 06:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by newromulan1 View Post
I don't film anything - could not care that much - but they were going off like crazy - even without a enemy destroyed they would still cycle a bit. I was convinced after 5 min of watching that they were totally automated and only had to push fire and manuver their ships.

Of course it could just have been some super fancy keybinds and normally I am so engaged in the battle I don't have 5 min to follow players around and watch them before - I don't know - but it really made me go - WTF??
Good PvPers are constantly hitting their powers as the situation dictates, there is nothing fishy there. If I don't see a guy putting up any buffs, he's probably dead or a total noob.


Click here and here if you are interested in learning more about PvP.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,766
# 29
06-14-2013, 08:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by drkfrontiers View Post
I live in a country where over the course of the last two years I have watch the near extinction of the majestic Rhino from our land because of the actions of a few self-serving men.

There is nothing noble about their slaughter, the carnage left in their wake.

This gets me thinking about certain actions by certain groups and individuals in PvP.

I am sure that all of you know what I mean.

Some folks who will happily bring PvP into disrepute if only to satisfy their own sense of self-aggrandizement. Here's the thing.

I don't respect that. I will not entertain that behavior ever. It drives new players away from PvP. It alienated novice players, and gives sanction to the rest of the communities disdain towards PvPers.

It is sad really, because what they leave behind is a wounded community - a community that cannot applaud their victors for their wins, because the underlying trust and integrity that holds PvP together is threatened every time the next known exploit, or broken power/ weapon is discovered and bound enmasse.

Today, I must say - I am ashamed to be associated with the PvP community. The malice and "look-at-me" attitude sickens me.

Had I known that PvP was such a popularity pageant frankly I would have worn a prom dress.

So, suck-it-up, get back on the field - and start to rebuild PvP into what it deserves to be.


This post has been edited to remove content which violates the Perfect World Entertainment Community Rules and Policies . ~BranFlakes
Well worded and sad at the same time. No worries though. As long as good people keep striving, evil will not prosper.

On the point of premades.. They are not the devil of PvP. Ive died to many a premade over the years and while it can suck to lose, I will not condemn a group of people for working as a team or doing it well when I could show the initiative and do the same but choose not too.
Richard Hamilton (1975-2014)
goodbye good friend. We will see you in the DMZ in the sky oneday, save a shot for us.

Last edited by bitemepwe; 06-14-2013 at 08:51 PM.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 523
# 30
06-14-2013, 09:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by drkfrontiers View Post
I live in a country where over the course of the last two years I have watch the near extinction of the majestic Rhino from our land because of the actions of a few self-serving men.

There is nothing noble about their slaughter, the carnage left in their wake.

This gets me thinking about certain actions by certain groups and individuals in PvP.

I am sure that all of you know what I mean.

Some folks who will happily bring PvP into disrepute if only to satisfy their own sense of self-aggrandizement. Here's the thing.

I don't respect that. I will not entertain that behavior ever. It drives new players away from PvP. It alienated novice players, and gives sanction to the rest of the communities disdain towards PvPers.

It is sad really, because what they leave behind is a wounded community - a community that cannot applaud their victors for their wins, because the underlying trust and integrity that holds PvP together is threatened every time the next known exploit, or broken power/ weapon is discovered and bound enmasse.

Today, I must say - I am ashamed to be associated with the PvP community. The malice and "look-at-me" attitude sickens me.

Had I known that PvP was such a popularity pageant frankly I would have worn a prom dress.

So, suck-it-up, get back on the field - and start to rebuild PvP into what it deserves to be.


This post has been edited to remove content which violates the Perfect World Entertainment Community Rules and Policies . ~BranFlakes
I agree. It's tiresome. We'll chat tomorrow on bootcamp I hope. Been too long since we have.

Take care old friend.
-X-/Pandas - Pheo
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