Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 987
# 11
06-14-2013, 10:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by stirling191 View Post
The discounts given by this holding are beyond hideous Salami. With the current numbers, a fleet is going to have to build an entire T5 starbase, an full Embassy and another 3-4 holdings priced identically to an Embassy just to recoup the investment they made on the dilithium mine.

How exactly is adding something that actually worsens the starbase grind the "significant improvement" to fleet progression that Stahl has been harping on for months?
Quote:
Originally Posted by liquidraven26 View Post
For the investment I really think it should do a 5/10/15% discount per tier
http://sto.gamepedia.com/User:MatthewM/FleetCosts

Assuming the base project costs for the Dilithium mine stays the same, we would need about a 8%/16%/24% Discount to make an entirely fresh Starbase + Embassy recoup the investment into the mine.

I think a 10%/20%/30% Discount would be nice, healthy, round choice of percentages. It would be nice if those percentages also applied to the Dil Stores (though, Cryptic could still keep the personal store discounts to increaments of 3% if they wanted to; Its the fleet holdings that need massive discounts to be worth the investments).

EDIT: My Own Personal feedback.
7,500 Fleet Credits for a Green Doff, 25,000 FC for a blue Doff, and 125,000 FC for a purple Doff is beyond ridiculous. They're just Single Doffs, in a sea of at least 100. They cost a whole heck of a lot more than they are worth. I think 5,000 , 10,000 , and 20,000 are more reasonable prices.

Last edited by atatassault; 06-14-2013 at 10:45 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,465
# 12
06-14-2013, 10:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by atatassault View Post
Assuming the base project costs for the Dilithium mine stays the same, we would need about a 8%/16%/24% Discount to make an entirely fresh Starbase + Embassy recoup the investment into the mine.
My math brought the total to complete the mine to 4.5 million or so dilith. That equates to needing a 17% discount, give or take a percent depending on rounding, to break even from a blank fleet holding slate (which I have to stress is absolutely *not* the norm).

That's just breaking even. Not making things easier.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 987
# 13
06-14-2013, 10:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by stirling191 View Post
My math brought the total to complete the mine to 4.5 million or so dilith. That equates to needing a 17% discount, give or take a percent depending on rounding, to break even from a blank fleet holding slate (which I have to stress is absolutely *not* the norm).

That's just breaking even. Not making things easier.
The Mine has the same Dil costs as the Embassy, no?

EDIT: Nevermind, I see now the Dil Mine upgrades themselves don't cost Dil. Then yes, at current rates, the 3/6/9 % discounts are recoup investments on an entirely fresh Starbase and Embassy. So 5/10/15 % sounds reasonable.

Last edited by atatassault; 06-14-2013 at 11:00 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,465
# 14
06-14-2013, 11:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by atatassault View Post
The Mine has the same Dil costs as the Embassy, no?

EDIT: Nevermind, I see now the Dil Mine upgrades themselves don't cost Dil. Then yes, at current rates, the 3/6/9 % discounts are recoup investments on an entirely fresh Starbase and Embassy. So 5/10/15 % sounds reasonable.
A 9% discount nets a savings of roughly 2.6 million dilith. You're still losing 1.9 million dilith at that pricing. 15% nets a savings of 4.3 million. That's still a loss.

Last edited by stirling191; 06-14-2013 at 11:08 AM.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 146
# 15
06-14-2013, 11:14 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by stirling191 View Post
How exactly is adding something that actually worsens the starbase grind the "significant improvement" to fleet progression that Stahl has been harping on for months?
Agreed. Stahl has said in several interviews that starbase progression would be made easier for small fleets, then said that change would come with this holding. It doesn't seem to me that this holding helps small fleets at all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by liquidraven26 View Post
For the investment I really think it should do a 5/10/15% discount per tier
I agree, the discount should be at least 15%, if not more. Also I think dilithium costs for the following projects should be removed:
  • Open Dilithium Trading
  • Trade Infrastructure Support
  • Develop Contacts in Nearby Star Systems
  • Supply Dilithium Miners

Last edited by eklinaar; 06-14-2013 at 11:22 AM.
Lieutenant
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 94
# 16
06-14-2013, 11:21 AM
I really think what would be fair is a 10/20/30% discount on fleet project and keep the dilith store and fleet item costs at a 3/6/9% discount by tier
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,400
# 17
06-14-2013, 11:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by salamiinferno View Post
The dilithium mine is up and available for testing! Projects have been tweaked for the test server so they only take three seconds to complete to speed up testing.

Leave feedback about progression, unlocks, rewards, bugs, anything!

Here is my feedback:

The discount really isn't a discount, especially at this stage in the game. This is a discount in wolf's clothing.

I'm not sure if you guys are intentionally trying to build a "noob" trap with this angle, or if you are simply so focused on whatever data/spreadsheets you have that tell you this makes sense.

We're all going to be grinding our little faces off for the gear anyway, but if this is the "compromise" for smaller fleets and is actually intended to help them.

Either
A: The discount is too small for where most fleets are now to have any meaning.
B: You have a bunch of future addons planned makes this discount both a blessing and a curse.

The art of the mine itself looks great.

The DOFFs, especially the higher tier ones, seem exorbitantly priced.
Really, 125,000 fleet credits for 1 purple DOFF + Dilithium on top of that?



Quote:
Originally Posted by stirling191 View Post
The discounts given by this holding are beyond hideous Salami. With the current numbers, a fleet is going to have to build an entire T5 starbase, an full Embassy and another 3-4 holdings priced identically to an Embassy just to recoup the investment they made on the dilithium mine.

How exactly is adding something that actually worsens the starbase grind the "significant improvement" to fleet progression that Stahl has been harping on for months?
Yeah, I just don't get the rationale here.

Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 766
# 18
06-14-2013, 11:29 AM
Actually, if you spend 4,689,960 dilithium, and manage to fold down dilithium costs on starbase and embassy to the minimum of 29,079,750 dilithium (per that link to the wiki), assuming that you build the mine first, and then build the starbase and embassy, and you started from scratch, the break even point it 16 percent final.

Of course, if all dilithium costs were removed from the mine, and not replaced with something else, then even 9% is good, since you didn't spend anything getting it. But if they do that, it means that Cryptic can't charge us for it.
Joined September 2011
Nouveau riche LTS member
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 416
# 19
06-14-2013, 11:40 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by eklinaar View Post



I agree, the discount should be at least 15%, if not more. Also I think dilithium costs for the following projects should be removed:
  • Open Dilithium Trading
  • Trade Infrastructure Support
  • Develop Contacts in Nearby Star Systems
  • Supply Dilithium Miners
QFT again.

The point is to build up a Dilithium Mine. If we use Dilithium to build it...what's the point of a Dilithium Mine?
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,652
# 20
06-14-2013, 11:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by entnx01 View Post
QFT again.

The point is to build up a Dilithium Mine. If we use Dilithium to build it...what's the point of a Dilithium Mine?
That answer is indirectly in this quote:

Quote:
Originally Posted by tlamstrike View Post
Right, because when they drill for oil they don't use petroleum products to lubricate the machinery or power the tankers and drilling platforms that are needed to get petroleum.
Probably something similar here: the Dilithilum mine itself requires Dilithium to build/maintain the equipment that mines it in the first place, not to mention the refining process.
Was named Trek17, but still an author.
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