Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,268
# 81
06-20-2013, 06:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by antoniosalieri View Post
To play a little devils advocate here.

The raptor trades nothing in comparison.

IT has less shields but more hull... turn is the same... in the case of the somrow.... it has one less tac console but a better boff layout.

The Romulan Varo... which imo is the closest comparison to the defiant. Gets a uni lt cmd... which I think makes the most sense as a Tac anyway giving it the same lay out as the defiant.

However it does have Very slighlty less hull... but I think the shields are about even. Turn is better. The Sing vs Warp core stuff is a wash... yes less power but the trade there is the Sing powers not the cloak.

I agree the Raptor and Defiant should both get battle cloaks... however simply trading a console slot does seem light doesn't it. Perhaps the defiant needs a 10% hull nerf to go with a Upgrade to its cloak console.
"IT has less shields but more hull... turn is the same... in the case of the somrow.... it has one less tac console but a better boff layout."

This is not entirely accurate. The Fleet Qin and Fleet Somraw both have higher hull and higher shield modifier than the Fleet Tactical Escort Retrofit. However, they're both slower in turning (Qin has 15 and Somraw has 16), which is important when it comes to escorts. Same with the lesser number of tac consoles. . .firepower is what defines an escort. On top of that, I think both the Raptors still have stupid turn axis points (the Qin definitely does), which further affects their turning. And yes, the Somraw does have a better boff station layout, but the Qin has the same one, and it's one of two cloaking raptors we have at that level.

Essentially, the raptors pay for their innate cloaks with crippling turn-rate/turn-axis issues that render them uncompetitive against Federation escorts. They've got a first-strike advantage. . .that's about it. The best escorts the KDF has is a destroyer, the Fleet Scourge. It's almost equivalent to the Fleet Patrol Escort (lacks the universal ensign, different console setup, slightly better turnrate). It also doesn't have a cloak. The Fleet Scourge is pretty much what any KDF escort pilot would be using in PvP, I think. The raptors just don't cut it. I'll be getting a Fleet Scourge myself at some point in the future.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,692
# 82
06-20-2013, 07:38 PM
Holy jeez, the Defiant is still one of the most powerful Escorts you can possibly get. It's maneuverable and hits tremendously hard, esp. the Fleet version. The regular cloak makes the ship capable of the best decloaking alpha strikes in the game, and people want to give it Battle Cloaks to weave in and out of combat freely? Not to mention it's well capable of staying in a fight?

You guys are on some serious crack here.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,766
# 83
06-20-2013, 07:40 PM
The Raptor does require enormous throttle control to make it snap turn fast but you can not be within 5km of target and expect to keep a fast target in sight.

In comparison the Defiant turns like a sports car without the need to throttle snap to do ot. Its the definitive tight-turn champ, especially within 1-3km, and only a novice tries to out turn one in dogfight.

The Raptors may be the KDF escorts but they fly and play differently than fed ones.
Richard Hamilton (1975-2014)
goodbye good friend. We will see you in the DMZ in the sky oneday, save a shot for us.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,953
# 84
06-20-2013, 07:40 PM
on another note, theres an incredibly small number of rapters to choose from too, at fleet end game. those tier 3 and 4 ships languishing unused, they would make great MVAM and armatige station setup counterparts
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Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,039
# 85
06-20-2013, 07:52 PM
Don't mean to go off topic but can someone check the math in:

http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/sh...1#post10945951

just from my basic number crunching it appears "Subterfuge" trait is not granting any bonus when using a romulan battle cloak, you get the RBC bonus, but nothing else. just a curiousity at the moment but wondering if someone with a better understanding of how the in-game mechanics work could take a look it would be appreciated.
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 801
# 86
06-20-2013, 08:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sollvax View Post
"loads"??

The Federation makes it a CRIME to operate a cloak in the alpha quadrant

The Romulans have limited battle cloaks on most ships

the defiant should be a t3 (commander) escort
with 2 fore and one aft weapon slot and NO cloak
Actually it's only considered a crime if it is a Federation designed cloak as that is against the treaty.

However, the cloak on the defiant was on loan from the Romulans with the stipulation that it only be used in the Gamma Quadrant and only operated and repaired by a Romulan. Considering that was before the escalation of the Dominion war it's not implausible that the stipulation was revoked, and there was only ever a Romulan operative that first episode with the cloak.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 5,587
# 87
06-21-2013, 12:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dontdrunkimshoot View Post
on another note, theres an incredibly small number of rapters to choose from too, at fleet end game. those tier 3 and 4 ships languishing unused, they would make great MVAM and armatige station setup counterparts
I know right?

All those wasted models, and people willing to pay for them.

Quite a shame. Cryptic simply won't give us what we are asking for.

Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 471
# 88
06-21-2013, 01:05 AM
I would say give the Defiant Retrofit/Fleet version a passive Standard Cloak and due away the cloak console which have no purpose since the only other ship on the fed side that can use it is the Galaxy-X.

As for the Battle cloak for the Defiant i would say NO... the Defiant class itself is one of the best ships at tier 5 and is superior to every BoP's and Raptors currently in the KDF Fleet line up, there's a reason why there are alot of fed players using Defiant's in pvp while there's barely nobody using raptors and a small amount of KDF players using BoP's while most KDF players nowadays are using Battle cruisers, Carriers, Lock Box and Lobi ships. And if the Defiant somehow get a battle cloak, All the Underpowered Raptors should have a battle cloak too. as for the Galaxy-X and all KDF battle cruisers having a battle cloak... i would say no to that as well.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,766
# 89
06-21-2013, 07:15 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by voicesdark View Post
Actually it's only considered a crime if it is a Federation designed cloak as that is against the treaty.

However, the cloak on the defiant was on loan from the Romulans with the stipulation that it only be used in the Gamma Quadrant and only operated and repaired by a Romulan. Considering that was before the escalation of the Dominion war it's not implausible that the stipulation was revoked, and there was only ever a Romulan operative that first episode with the cloak.
Was not that Defiant the first one and was it not also destroyed taking the cloak with it?
Richard Hamilton (1975-2014)
goodbye good friend. We will see you in the DMZ in the sky oneday, save a shot for us.
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 434
# 90
06-21-2013, 07:22 AM
But...

Yeah, do it. At this point, what could it possibly hurt? Besides, my Fed Romulan would be more than willing to loan my Fed Fed a new battle cloak to close the "canon loop hole".

BC for all!
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