Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,015
# 31
06-24-2013, 06:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by naevius View Post
Yes. Firing the torp immediately after dropping the mines set the cooldown to 11 secs from 24.
Sweet. Don't even have to decloak.
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,416
# 32
06-24-2013, 07:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by snoge00f View Post
lol yep, and the Tractor Mines are even worse now.
i doubt they are worse then when they first came out.


remember that?

and the whole thing with the community asking for less pet spam then them getting released?

and how many of them there could be! and i think it was before there was "tractor lite" and whatnot....
Quote:
Originally Posted by mancom View Post
Frankly, I think the only sound advice that one can give new players at this time is to stay away from PVP in STO.
Science pvp at its best-http://www.youtube.com/user/matteo716
Do you even Science Bro?
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 5,551
# 33
06-24-2013, 08:22 PM
Praxi asked, and I am curious as well:

How are tractor mines better all of a sudden?

Captain
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 1,054
# 34
06-24-2013, 09:22 PM
I have been using this in pvp for a few days now, with DPB1. Buffs usually include : AUX = 125, APO3, Decloak ambush bonus, Nukara T4 rep, maxed out on projectile weapon skill points, Rule 62 combat console

Here is my feedback :

- When they hit, they are extremely powerful, often resulting in the death of the opponent but not always

- The time to deploy these mines are very long, from launch to dispersal to armed - the target has about a good 8-10 seconds to react when they see mines are being deployed. This is a very long time

- Mines have not been terribly popular since the tricobalt mine nerf because they take a long time to arm and this is no exception

- These mines don't often hit their target because in pvp, many cycle EptE continuously, and even more are flying very rapidly to the point that it is more likely that people flew into the deployed mines by chance as opposed to being caught when they were first deployed - in other words, poor piloting skill is the culpit

- They are often cleared by the spamming of pets and FAW and I will add tractor beam repulsors as being super effective as well


Based on no less than 8 hours of actual pvp in Kerrat and Arena + Capture & Hold, the web mines really haven't been a major factor as some claimed in this thread. They are in fact rarely seen still in pvp, let alone an epidemic level. Maybe there was a premade spamming them to no end, I have not run into them yet. Then again, it doesn't mean the weapon is broken - it means that particular premade needs to be boycotted so that they will understand no one will play them in the future if they continue such behavior. Even if I were to run into such premade, I have to question those having trouble dealing with those - the mines deployment are clearly visible and they are stationary - why don't you adjust your approach to compensate??? In a week since these start to hit the holodeck, I can say I have been hit by a grand total of 1 time. Yes, that's all. It shows how hard it is for them to actually catch their target. Romulan players can also simply use Plasma Shockwave to clear them when near. They are only problematic if you can't see them but they aren't cloaked and all mines are visible when deployed and even light up like Christmas trees when armed.

Tonight in Kerrat, I think I was the only one using it at all. Only came to the forum after someone started to talk about the numerous threads about this in the forum. I think many are finding it hard to incorporate them into their repertoire that's why. Mines deployment is very hard to master and easily countered, that's why cryptic thought about changing the tact console buff to mines last year although they didn't go through with it. Torpedo is rare and mines even rarer in terms of their use. To be honest, I was unsure whether to keep this set up where I forced myself to add DPB1 into the boff powers.

As for a claim earlier that if someone just use DBP3 with this, it's a "I Win " button. I think that's so far out of touch with the reality that it deserves a dose of reality check. First, to do so, you will need to give up on APO3, which in turn lowers the buff you can give to those mines by a lot. Losing APO3 means it will not only affect the damage of everything you do - not just these mines - your overall defense and movement will also drop. Given how hard it is for these mines to hit their target, few if anyone in their sound mind would take such a gamble.

As for dedicated cloaked bombers like the T'Varo - the only way you are going to be hit by those dropped from the T'Varo is if you fly into those mines totally blind. You see, the T'Varo can't tractor you without breaking its cloak and the DBP3 caused such a big spread that not only you can hear it, you also can't miss the visual deployment especially when they are meant to be deployed near you.

On paper, these mines are very powerful however they rarely hit their targets, especially if their target is even just half decent. At the end of the day, for every 10 times these mines are deployed, they will end up hitting their intended target maybe less than 20% of the time. Even then, it may not the entire complement of the mines, but whatever that managed to survive until they hit the target.
Captain
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 1,054
# 35
06-24-2013, 09:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mimey2 View Post
Praxi asked, and I am curious as well:

How are tractor mines better all of a sudden?
They are not. I suspect many started to use them again after seeing the new NPCs spam them in the various PvE missions and story missions. People tend to mimic what they saw and thought was effective.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,063
# 36
06-24-2013, 09:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by iskandus View Post
They are not. I suspect many started to use them again after seeing the new NPCs spam them in the various PvE missions and story missions. People tend to mimic what they saw and thought was effective.
They are definately stronger than before. I remember a Mogai killing me with them when I was leveling a new Romulan. Before LoR, they wouldn't really hold you or do any noticeable damage and they disappeared after a few seconds.

Now they do hold you, deal damage and cloak and decloak all the time, no vanishing after 2 seconds. I did not try the player usable version though. Maybe they're only stronger for NPC's now.
Only Internet users deal in absolutes !
Captain
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,465
# 37
06-24-2013, 09:45 PM
Tractor mines are stronger. A week before LoR, those mines couldn't even hold the probes in KASE. Now they do.
Captain
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 1,054
# 38
06-24-2013, 09:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by s7ike View Post
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JgWpmBd38GA
Web mine test right there.
Also, i don't know about the second time in the video but we had the cruiser put on jevonite hard points to get the full effect.
First of all, thanks for making this video and sharing it. It's quite interesting to see.

After examining the content, I have to say I think the test is somewhat misleading.

Here is why:

- The bug ship deploying the mines are using DBP3 and every single tact buff out there, including Going Down Fighting (GDF), that's why the others were shooting it prior to deployment so that GDF can be deployed

- DBP3 is such a rarely seen skill for a reason, even dedicated cloaked bombers don't often have them, let alone a regular escort

- Testing done with GDF is not practical because it assumes a buff that can only be situationally deployed in rare circumstnaces as now hull has to be less 50% before it can be activated

- I noticed APA was also used to buff up the mines - however, APA has a 2 minutes CD so you can use it with these mines only 25% of the time assuming deployment at every 30 sec. interval to match the mines's CD, again not very practical

- The testing ignored the most important aspect of a mine's weakness - catching its opponent when they actually move : You will almost never encounter a stationary opponent in PvP, not unless they have passed out in front of their monitor, so how does the said bug ship intends to use these mines effectively with DBP3 without another skill(s) to disable or hold their target without them escaping easily?

- Bug ship with DBP3 will have very few means of disabling its opponent for 8-10 seconds for these mines to deploy, armed and start moving so while this is interesting on paper, the demonstration is very much theoretical, as opposed to being practical

- Theoretical damage really isn't very helpful in pvp unless they can translate into actual hits




So what you have shown in this vid is that these mines can be very powerful with the right buffs. Except those buffs aren't always present and if and only if your opponent simply lays there for you to mine them, which is not going to happen in pvp.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,738
# 39
06-24-2013, 11:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by praxi5 View Post
How so?

/10char
It may just be me, but I don't recall the original mines holding as long as these mines do. They got buffed with the LoR release, for some dumb reason.

At the very least they are as bad as they original were.


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Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,738
# 40
06-24-2013, 11:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by iskandus View Post
...
Oh look, it's someone who hasn't actually used or have had the mines used on him in PvP.

And he's moved on from championing the defense of the Valdore console, to the Web mines now.


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