Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 601
02-25-2010, 04:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doctor Comics
At the risk of sounding really stupid, I cannot find anything like this.

I have a folder, "STO Unofficial Mac Beta4" and inside that folder are two things: "Directions.pdf" and "Star Trek Online," which launches the game. I don't see a Cryptic Studios folder there or anywhere else.

Did I miss something in the download? Or is it there, and I just can't see it for some reason?
That file called "Star Trek Online" is the start point.
Right click on that file, and select "Show Package Contents".
That will open up a new window with three entries: "drive_c", "WineskinSettings.app" and "Contents".

In "drive_c", there's another directory called "Program Files".
In there, another directory called "Cryptic Studios".
In there is a directory called "Star Trek Online".
In there, a directory called "Live".

And in there, a directory called "screenshots" which is where you'll find any screenshots you've dumped.


EDIT: Uhh, I've just realised something: you *have* installed the game and got it working, haven't you? If not, you kinda need to do that before you can get screenshots...
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 602
02-25-2010, 04:14 PM
Awesome. Found it. Made an alias folder so I could find it easier. Thanks a bunch!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 603
02-25-2010, 04:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by XaivierCross View Post
Hey guys,

I have successfully installed STO using wineskin RC7 but as soon as i try to run the STO.exe the launcher window is just a white blank screen... any ideas why it shows blank? theres no progress bar for patching, no "engage" button, not even a picture of the box art, the window is just blank. Can anyone help me out please?
Stock Wineskin RC7 will not run it... you need to download he STO version link I have near the bottom of the first post, its been customized to run STO right.

Quote:
Originally Posted by anesah View Post
I don't know anything at all about this WineSkin project, not being a Mac user myself, but I know quite a bit about Wine. The truth is, in Cedega with most games you could actually get better performance out of Wine's implementation because it was simply better in some ways. If WineSkin is essentially the same thing only for a mac, and you have any experience making it work with a 3D app like this, I'd go for it and buy the game. You could launch a community all your own. Or help the OP out, for real!
Wineskin (currently) is just a wrapper that goes around a Windows program to make it work like a Mac app. It uses Wine and Xquartz (X.org X11 that runs on top of OSX). It normally uses totally stock Wine so can run anything Wine can run. The problems usually comes down to X11 support being so horrid on OSX.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doctor Comics
At the risk of sounding really stupid, I cannot find anything like this.

I have a folder, "STO Unofficial Mac Beta4" and inside that folder are two things: "Directions.pdf" and "Star Trek Online," which launches the game. I don't see a Cryptic Studios folder there or anywhere else.

Did I miss something in the download? Or is it there, and I just can't see it for some reason?
Right click on Star Trek Online.app and select "Show Package Contents" in there you'll find drive_c folder and can look through and find Cryptic Studios and the screenshots folder.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 604
02-25-2010, 07:16 PM
Im using Bootcamp. The only issues I've had is the heat that is generated by my MBP. And occasionally (once every 2 hours my computer freezes when im in sector space-strange).
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 605
02-25-2010, 10:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by coderanger
I think perhaps people think support on Windows works a tad diferently than it actually does. .... <cut>
I don't think you understand what he is saying ....

I think he just wants a native mac client and he is letting you(as in cryptic) know of at least one ~$300 sale you are missing out on simply because you don't have a native client. I'm sure you could work with transgamming to get an officially supported client - which would then bring this and other users like him back in to the fold.

As it is now you are only getting the users willing to install boot camp to play this game. No, I know you don't need boot camp with this wineskin to play the game. But the only real way to find wineskin is to buy the game and maybe visit the forums. To put it another way, I'm sure plenty of users go to www.startrekonline.com or www.atari.com and notice its a Windows only game and not buy it and move on. You would only buy the game if you felt like installing windows via bootcamp. considering the hassle and resources to do that many would simply not bother. A few might search the forums for talk of a mac version... If you had a mac client you could say Windows and Mac supported on the front page and grab those people.

Native support would be really awesome. and not just because if you update the game and break it for us non-windows users you would be under stronger obligation to fix it. Here is a list of things I think would be resolved if a native mac client was put out by cryptic. Either through Transgamming or just cryptic it self.

- better video card support. adding in more features like AA and other features.
- fonts looking good. (they do look a lot better then before, did you guys do something to help with that?)
- better support for multi-monitor setup
- better full screen / window mode
- better support for resolution switching
- stop flipping from hardware mouse to software mouse causing a second trailing mouse. (easy to fix..
- alt-key
- stop that crazy camera jumping around when mouse viewing and mac mouse goes off screen.
- am I forgetting anything?

Why am I so confident? because transgamming has been able to do it with all the other mac games they put out. With Spore and dragon age I can hardly tell its a windows game wrapped in wine good-nees. and they all look and play awesome. I'm sure most, if not all of those issues they have run into before and know where to look and how to fix it.

Point is, that even though this wineskin is awesome and is enough for me to play the game in MacOS X without rebooting into windows. its still not as good as it could be for reasons listed above. Mostly how we are stuck with xquartz. Which is OK. But cider would be more OK. like OK +1 . or awesome or something....

SO, I totally support and understand this user in saying that he is voting by not buying this game. We'll never know if he would really buy the game if you had a true native client. But at least, if you are keeping track, you can add one more potential person who won't be buying your game because of reason X. I trust Cryptic more then the users on the forums on rather or not its worth to spend the resources on a native client. At least you have more information on the cost-benefit analysis on native clients for non-windows OSs. there is enough people in the world that we have a spectrum.

For myself, the only reason why I did buy the game was because it was Star Trek IP and I have a thing about at least playing every star trek game ever made.... But that's just me. If this wasn't star trek I wouldn't buy it. I wouldn' be a life-time sub.

Now that I've played STO and I know what type of games you guys make I would be more tempted to try champions then I would normally be.(not that into MMOs nor super heros) However, no native client for Champions . i'm told winskin can do it. But its just not worth it for me. Perhaps I should go buy CoH.(now that it has a native client)

Don't get me wrong. I think you guys are soo awesome for even partially supporting non-windows users. I can tell you are helping us mac users and linux peeps I want to encourage it. Its soo much better then many other software development houses who just ignore or come up with reason over reason why it can't be done to have a mac version of their software.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 606
02-25-2010, 10:48 PM
Quote:
I don't think you understand what he is saying ....

I think he just wants a native mac client and he is letting you(as in cryptic) know of at least one ~$300 sale you are missing out on simply because you don't have a native client. I'm sure you could work with transgamming to get an officially supported client - which would then bring this and other users like him back in to the fold.

As it is now you are only getting the users willing to install boot camp to play this game. No, I know you don't need boot camp with this wineskin to play the game. But the only real way to find wineskin is to buy the game and maybe visit the forums. To put it another way, I'm sure plenty of users go to www.startrekonline.com or www.atari.com and notice its a Windows only game and not buy it and move on. You would only buy the game if you felt like installing windows via bootcamp. considering the hassle and resources to do that many would simply not bother. A few might search the forums for talk of a mac version... If you had a mac client you could say Windows and Mac supported on the front page and grab those people.

Native support would be really awesome. and not just because if you update the game and break it for us non-windows users you would be under stronger obligation to fix it. Here is a list of things I think would be resolved if a native mac client was put out by cryptic. Either through Transgamming or just cryptic it self.

- better video card support. adding in more features like AA and other features.
- fonts looking good. (they do look a lot better then before, did you guys do something to help with that?)
- better support for multi-monitor setup
- better full screen / window mode
- better support for resolution switching
- stop flipping from hardware mouse to software mouse causing a second trailing mouse. (easy to fix..
- alt-key
- stop that crazy camera jumping around when mouse viewing and mac mouse goes off screen.
- am I forgetting anything?

Why am I so confident? because transgamming has been able to do it with all the other mac games they put out. With Spore and dragon age I can hardly tell its a windows game wrapped in wine good-nees. and they all look and play awesome. I'm sure most, if not all of those issues they have run into before and know where to look and how to fix it.

Point is, that even though this wineskin is awesome and is enough for me to play the game in MacOS X without rebooting into windows. its still not as good as it could be for reasons listed above. Mostly how we are stuck with xquartz. Which is OK. But cider would be more OK. like OK +1 . or awesome or something....

SO, I totally support and understand this user in saying that he is voting by not buying this game. We'll never know if he would really buy the game if you had a true native client. But at least, if you are keeping track, you can add one more potential person who won't be buying your game because of reason X. I trust Cryptic more then the users on the forums on rather or not its worth to spend the resources on a native client. At least you have more information on the cost-benefit analysis on native clients for non-windows OSs. there is enough people in the world that we have a spectrum.

For myself, the only reason why I did buy the game was because it was Star Trek IP and I have a thing about at least playing every star trek game ever made.... But that's just me. If this wasn't star trek I wouldn't buy it. I wouldn' be a life-time sub.

Now that I've played STO and I know what type of games you guys make I would be more tempted to try champions then I would normally be.(not that into MMOs nor super heros) However, no native client for Champions . i'm told winskin can do it. But its just not worth it for me. Perhaps I should go buy CoH.(now that it has a native client)

Don't get me wrong. I think you guys are soo awesome for even partially supporting non-windows users. I can tell you are helping us mac users and linux peeps I want to encourage it. Its soo much better then many other software development houses who just ignore or come up with reason over reason why it can't be done to have a mac version of their software.
So you are talking in circles. Transgaming's Cider is not a native system. It is a modified Wine that uses a custom display system instead of X. It doesn't give you a whole lot that WineSkin or Crossover Games don't give you, so I'm not sure what you are asking for. Are you under the impression that the game doesn't look nice under Wine or something? A native client will never happen, but that is true of any game made in the last 5 years too. Native means not using DirectX, and for a huge number of reasons I can't possibly cover here OpenGL is not a viable option for making games anymore. Yes it works, but it costs far too much and certainly isn't worth the cost to port to when you have a perfectly fine Dx engine. Of all the things you mentioned as bugs, they are all Wine issues and therefore not something we can fix. Both the Wine and Codeweavers teams are aware of them, and thats pretty much all we can do. Other than some light cosmetic issues, do you actually have any problems running the game under either of the packaged Wine options (Crossover is Wine too if that isn't clear)? I'm not trying to be inflammatory here, but I'm kind of at a loss for what else we can do that doesn't involve rewriting the engine from scratch to be Mac native (and also being far worse at the same time). I guess an option is to hire one of the Wine devs to work on compat for us full-time, but I doubt that will fly on either end. All this talk about "official support" is really just a distraction from the simple fact that we do, indeed, care about OS X and Linux users and intend to do our best to support them, even though we can't do it as well as Windows since we lack the experience.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
I just want to note for anyone who might be interested that doh's wrapper works smoothly and easily for Champions as well as STO.

To get Champions onto your Mac, launch the installer for STO, login with your account and password, and click on "options." Click on "show all games." This will create a drop-down menu on the launcher that will allow you to select which game you want to patch/play.

Once you use this drop-down menu to select Champions Online, the launcher will begin to download Champions onto your hard disk. Once the download is complete, just click on "Engage" and Champions will launch.

No alteration to anything inside the wrapper is required. You just have to use the Options menu inside Cryptic's launcher to get it to display Champions as an option, along with STO. (It has always had this capability; the option is just turned off by default.) This presumes you do not have CO already installed on a partition or anything else. The download is not very long, however.

Again, my thanks to doh123 for making this wrapper, which lets me run my favorite games without Boot Camp or Windows!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 608
02-25-2010, 11:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by coderanger
A native client will never happen, but that is true of any game made in the last 5 years too. Native means not using DirectX, and for a huge number of reasons I can't possibly cover here OpenGL is not a viable option for making games anymore. Yes it works, but it costs far too much and certainly isn't worth the cost to port to when you have a perfectly fine Dx engine.
And yet, Blizzard manages to release every title simultaneously for the Mac and Windows -- and curiously enough, has about twice as many Mac WoW users as STO has total users. So "not a viable option" seems like a bit of an exaggeration.

Granted that a Cider port isn't native -- but it provides a Mac box, a non-fidgety Mac install, and it registers as a Mac sale, and it implies a certain commitment on the part of the company to support it if something breaks.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 609
02-26-2010, 12:20 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wrd View Post
And yet, Blizzard manages to release every title simultaneously for the Mac and Windows -- and curiously enough, has about twice as many Mac WoW users as STO has total users. So "not a viable option" seems like a bit of an exaggeration.

Granted that a Cider port isn't native -- but it provides a Mac box, a non-fidgety Mac install, and it registers as a Mac sale, and it implies a certain commitment on the part of the company to support it if something breaks.
Technically, WoW was made more than 6 years ago.

Secondly, Blizzard are a multi-billion pound organisation, so for them, the viability in supporting/making/patching an official mac client, is good. You even pointed out that WoW has twice the mac users that STO has total users, so how is not vaible on cyptics part an exaggeration.

Thirdly, buy a Windows PC.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 610
02-26-2010, 02:21 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MillsUK View Post
Technically, WoW was made more than 6 years ago.

Secondly, Blizzard are a multi-billion pound organisation, so for them, the viability in supporting/making/patching an official mac client, is good. You even pointed out that WoW has twice the mac users that STO has total users, so how is not vaible on cyptics part an exaggeration.

Thirdly, buy a Windows PC.
Forthly, Blizzard was making games for Mac's long before they made games for PC's, so they have more experience at it.
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