Ensign
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 17
# 1 Concerning Elite STFs
07-02-2013, 09:22 AM
I would like to suggest that players new to the reputation system and to the Special Task Forces, are required to complete non-elite missions until they reach Tier 1 in that section. This mainly concerns Omega. Many of the higher tiered players complain about people who don't know what they are doing, joining Elite STFs. These are very fun missions, but they require people with the gear and the experience. Having tier 1 in reputation proves that they have succesfully done these missions before, on a lower level, have gear now better suited for these missions, and have the experience required to complete them at a higher level.

Thanks for reading.
Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 427
# 2
07-02-2013, 09:49 AM
If this system is put into place, those same "high-tier" players will then complain that their new characters are forced to complete Omega tier one before they can enter elite STFs.

Besides, you don't need special gear to do STFs. The only reason people feel like they must have certain gear is because "experienced" players keep telling newer players that it's what you need.
Demons run when a good man goes to war.
Lieutenant
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 85
# 3
07-02-2013, 11:39 AM
At most I could see making it so that they could only do Normal STFs until they reach T1, that way they should at least know the missions.
Ensign
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 17
# 4
07-02-2013, 02:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by zaynar View Post
At most I could see making it so that they could only do Normal STFs until they reach T1, that way they should at least know the missions.
That's what I mean.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,525
# 5
07-02-2013, 02:41 PM
Crappy idea.

For one, most people have run a few normal STFs before even hitting 50, considering they're starting at ~mid-40is, secondly it'd hurt people who've successfully done a few hundred elites on their alts and force them to rerun non-elites and lastly, it wouldn't help, as tactics you usually use in normal STFs are bound to fail optionals in Elite.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 509
# 6
07-02-2013, 03:19 PM
No.

/10char
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lunasto View Post
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Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 321
# 7
07-02-2013, 03:44 PM
You can grind to Tier 1 Omega Rep on Normals without having a bull's notion of how to do Elite STFs because:

1) There's too much of a gap between the difficulty of Normals & Elites, so doing Normals is ineffective as preparation for Elites.
2) The power creep in this game since the STFs were introduced in their current form, is such that 2 good players can cover of the deficiencies of 3 terrible ones. So people can be and are carried through STFs without ever learning how to do them.
3) With the rep system, there's no distinction between the STFs as far as the game is concerned. Even the very worst players can just knock out an Infected Conduit, which requires extra-strength stupidity to fail, every hour. And technically you can't even fail it, you can only draw it out to an annoyingly long time that makes everyone quit. So even if you were somehow so terrible that you couldn't be carried through a ground STF or a Cure or KA Space, you could reach T1 Omega that way without learning how to play the game properly.

Gating the Elite STFs is, and always has been, a pointless and ineffective idea that'll just annoy players levelling and second and subsequent characters.

The Elite STF PuG issue is a product of the fact that PvE in this game doesn't have a difficulty curve to speak of (it's flat with a small step at Normal STFs and a slightly bigger one at Elite STFs), and the game has n00btraps - like rainbow weapons and healthy dose of near-useless BOff abilities. It's staggering how ****e a build can happily reach max level without ever getting found out. Then these players start doing STFs and contribute practically nothing to them.

Gating and locking off content won't fix that. The only thing that has a chance is a fundamental redesign of all the PvE content in the game so people have to get better as they level up in order to actually complete missions. And even if that happens, I'm sure the most determined of morons will still find a way to derp their way in.

The only practical suggestion I have in the meantime is don't PuG.
Lieutenant
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 74
# 8
07-03-2013, 11:12 AM
For all the people who make suggestions like these:

Imagine all the stress and disappointment you'd be spared if you simply entered every ESTF without feeling as though you were entitled to completing the optionals.

I mean, what are we talking about here? 25% or so of the total marks you could earn?

Visualize all the fun and satisfaction you could have if you considered those 15 marks...optional. as in, not essential, not guaranteed.

I hope I don't sound patronizing, I'm not trying to be. I am completely serious. If you don't DEMAND a team of strangers is capable of completing the optional every single time you hop into an eSTF, your time in STO will be much more enjoyable.


Good luck out there, captains!
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 993
# 9
07-03-2013, 07:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by scrimpinion View Post
For all the people who make suggestions like these:

Imagine all the stress and disappointment you'd be spared if you simply entered every ESTF without feeling as though you were entitled to completing the optionals.

I mean, what are we talking about here? 25% or so of the total marks you could earn?

Visualize all the fun and satisfaction you could have if you considered those 15 marks...optional. as in, not essential, not guaranteed.

I hope I don't sound patronizing, I'm not trying to be. I am completely serious. If you don't DEMAND a team of strangers is capable of completing the optional every single time you hop into an eSTF, your time in STO will be much more enjoyable.


Good luck out there, captains!
The thing is, most experienced ESTF captains have invested a lot of time, effort, dilithium and in some cases Zen to optimize their ships and crews for these ESTFs precisely so they can ace the optionals consistently. To suggest they not worry about the optionals is basically to imply that all that investment was meaningless.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 11
# 10
07-05-2013, 08:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fraghul2000 View Post
Crappy idea.

For one, most people have run a few normal STFs before even hitting 50, considering they're starting at ~mid-40is, secondly it'd hurt people who've successfully done a few hundred elites on their alts and force them to rerun non-elites and lastly, it wouldn't help, as tactics you usually use in normal STFs are bound to fail optionals in Elite.
Bound to fail the optionals? Try the entire objective list :p

But yes, I agree that normals don't teach you elites. I'm always polite with people who don't know how the game goes, because we were all noobs once, and if you try talking to them and being polite about how it works, it will usually come out that they're playing EXACTLY how they learned to play. To elaborate on our collective point for the benefit of others, especially the L337...

Example: players shifting up to ISE from ISN simply don't understand what you mean by "10%" because it's not a thing in ISN. The nanite vehicles in ISN are just probes, so you put one guy out there to shoot them down as they appear and merrily blast away at the gens and transfers any old way you like.

So noobcake performs the incredibly infuriating feat of blowing up one generator and then, instead of even hanging around to help drop the others, goes running off into the borg reinforcements to shoot ineffectually, completely fail to drop any slow powers, get blown up, and lose you the optional.

BUT, from noobcakes perspective, he is doing the best job possible and the rest of you are failing hardcore. See, because of the way normals run, noobcake is used to unloading at a generator and then popping a bunch of DPS powers to either unload at the others or unload at the relatively defenseless probes. So he blows up a generator, JUST LIKE HE'S SUPPOSED TO, and then, seeing that nobody at all is defending from probes, goes sprinting off to destroy the now-spheres, JUST LIKE HE'S SUPPOSED TO, and pops a lot of a large amount of offensive and defensive powers, because he's SUPPOSED to target the nanite vehicles and try to shrug off the escort's fire just long enough to down them; he doesn't have room in that loadout for silly powers like gravity well of repulsor beams.

Typically, this will be followed by many people yelling at him, or one really vocal person, which only reinforces noobcake's perspective that the rest of you are loser scrubs who don't like to play as a team. Lets be honest here, STFs, and MMOs in general, are full of people who spend more time complaining about others than playing the game...

So the BEST remedy for this is not to make them play even MORE of the wrong mode, but to politely explain the correct tactics, the whats the hows and the whys, to anybody who doesn't understand. Because if you actually talk to them instead of screaming at them, they will thank you for your help, learn, and become much more valuable teammates to the next run. Teach people and the total number of noobs will drop as they come to understand what they're doing and why or yell at people and watch as they continue to try to refine inherently inneffective builds, engage in incorrect tactics, and assume that the entire game is populated by jerks. I guess that WOULD eventually thin numbers by scaring them off
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