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Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 795
Going F2P has undeiably increased the quantity of new content developed for sto. More suprisingly the artistic quality of new content in STO has risen as well.

Going F2P has not all been good though. Design decisions have been made and resorces alocated to maximize profit before customer enjoyment.

Two areas which have not benefited from F2P are bug squashing and game balence.

There are fundemental flaws with game ballence in sto that require more then just increasing x value in relation to y value.

There are also still bugs which have been with us since before launch, to say nothing of the hundreds more that have propigated and never seen developer attention.

Now F2P has been a far better thing then bad. Before F2P we were paying our subscriptions and recving virtualy no content what so ever, and cirtainly no more bug fixes or ballence changes then we are now.

So, can we think of an acceptable way for us to monatize bug fixes and balence changes?

If cryptic can go to the money men and say; 'let us develop x content because the playerbase will pay us for it,' why cant we think up a system where by they can go to the money men and say, 'let us recitify these issues because the playerbase will pay us for it.'?

Last edited by pwstolemyname; 07-05-2013 at 01:27 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,973
# 2
07-05-2013, 02:02 AM
Monetize bug fixing? Sure thing. Don't pay them anymore until the bugs are fixed

Seriously, the playerbase of this game is so forgiving and grateful for anything that there is no hurry to fix three year old bugs. Now people are actually thinking about paying even more money for those bugs to be fixed. Isn't that a bit like buying a car without windshield and then gladly pay extra for it?

I know that a F2P game has to make money through "micro"transactions (50 bucks aren't that micro anymore ) in order to maintain the game. But we don't actually get that many bugfixes, even with people spending hundreds of dollars for new in-game toys. So the only way of "monetizing" bug fixing would be to not pay until those issues are adressed - but STOs playerbase isn't the kind of playerbase doing that
-> STO players unite and say NO to ARC <- -> Click if you prefer the old forum design! <-
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"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,439
# 3
07-05-2013, 02:12 AM
As far as bugs are concerned, the game seems to be at a level which is normal for mmos and most game breakers usually get fixed within acceptable time frames. The only thing I'd currently critizise is the case that there sometimes are game breaking bugs (e.g. the mail deletion bug) which are know on the test realm, which even appear in the patch notes, but aren't fixed before release.

Quote:
Design decisions have been made and resorces alocated to maximize profit before customer enjoyment.
Take a look at SWTOR to get an idea what it would be like if that were the case. You'd be paying for toolbars 3,4,5,; you'd be paying for LOR, you'd be paying for each feature episode, you'd be paying if you want to run more than one STF/day, you'd be paying for the Risa event, you'd have to spend 3x more time and rescources for the rep system unless you pay, you wouldn't be able to use purple gear unless you pay etc...
Captain
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 924
# 4
07-05-2013, 02:14 AM
do you guys not have fun when you play??

yes there are bugs, yes some are old.. yes it seems like some are never going to be fixed.. but the game is still fun.. thats all that really matters..
[12:35] Vessel Two of Two Unimatrix 01 deals 225232 (271723) Plasma Damage to you with Plasma Lance.
[12:44] Vessel One of Two Unimatrix 01 deals 1019527 (1157678) Kinetic Damage to you with Plasma Energy Bolt Explosion.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 5,035
# 5
07-05-2013, 02:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by angrytarg View Post
Monetize bug fixing? Sure thing. Don't pay them anymore until the bugs are fixed

Seriously, the playerbase of this game is so forgiving and grateful for anything that there is no hurry to fix three year old bugs. Now people are actually thinking about paying even more money for those bugs to be fixed. Isn't that a bit like buying a car without windshield and then gladly pay extra for it?

I know that a F2P game has to make money through "micro"transactions (50 bucks aren't that micro anymore ) in order to maintain the game. But we don't actually get that many bugfixes, even with people spending hundreds of dollars for new in-game toys. So the only way of "monetizing" bug fixing would be to not pay until those issues are adressed - but STOs playerbase isn't the kind of playerbase doing that
amen angrytarg!!!!!!!!

now its moved to the dead zone
swimwear off risa not fixed
Quote:
Originally Posted by macronius View Post
This! Their ability to outdo their own failures is quite impressive. If only this power could be harnessed for good.
Quote:
Originally Posted by valoreah View Post
It's not their fault you feel trolled by the new ability to be immune to your disco ball, sorry'boutit.

Last edited by daan2006; 07-05-2013 at 02:21 AM.
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 443
# 6
07-05-2013, 03:26 AM
Well said, thats something I allways stress when people complaign about something, its only a game, if u dont like it dont play, there are hundreds more that do. Games like this allways have bugs, and yes micro transactions like $50, aint small but you dont HAVE to pay anything to play this game, enjoy it and get to end game, and yet still compete, it annoys me with people complaining about the Scimitar, Yes its broken (only slightly and tbh not enough to stop me using it, just adapt for now and stop whining) yes its cost 500 zen, but if you didnt enjoy the game you would have bought it, its the same with all the paid features, If u dont want it, dont buy it, many games that are FTP are extoritantly expensive to play properly as has been mentioned, and those that charge a sub like WOW, are costly over time as you have to buy expansions on top of your membership.

All in all, to the guys and gals that make this game, your doing great, keep up the good work, and fix it when you can.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 795
# 7
07-05-2013, 11:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by angrytarg View Post
Monetize bug fixing? Sure thing. Don't pay them anymore until the bugs are fixed
This isn't really a very good suggestion is it? There is no way any mmo playerbase could ever be persuaded to participate in a boycott and individuals who care enough do so because they like playing, so not playing isn't an option for them is it?

I am not saying we need to pay cryptic more money. I am asking for the option of paying them for something else. Specifically things which every one could benefit from. Maybe I don't want to buy any new ships any more. Maybe I don't want to pay to win. Maybe I would be prepared to contribute a few $ to get a bug fixed that has been bothering me for years and won't ever get fixed because there is no financial incentive for cryptic to do so.

Honestly I don't understand the hostility of the posts above toward the the notion of paying for game polish. There are players who regularly put down quite unreasonable amounts on sto simply because they want to support the game they enjoy. Currently they have to buy content which drives cryptic to make more content. What is wrong with driving cryptic to other goals?

Last edited by pwstolemyname; 07-05-2013 at 01:16 PM.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 795
# 8
07-05-2013, 12:07 PM
Also no bugs have been reported in this topic so why has it been moved to the bug report forum?

The original post was asking for suggestions as to how we might acceptably implement a means to pay for things other then content. I felt general discussion was appropriate as no actual solution was suggested.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,973
# 9
07-05-2013, 09:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pwstolemyname View Post
This isn't really a very good suggestion is it? There is no way any mmo playerbase could ever be persuaded to participate in a boycott and individuals who care enough do so because they like playing, so not playing isn't an option for them is it?(...)
But it may be the only viable option. Seriously, and I really don't want to sound hostile, I'm trying to be reasonable here: What other product out there wouldn't you consider poorly maintained if it would sport reported and verified issues for years like STO does? And would you honestly consider paying more than you already have to fix those issues instead of waiting until the thing you paid for is fixed?

I know that F2P is a difficult model, but like you stated, people pay already absurd amounts of money just for in-game shinies and yet many many bugs and issues haven't been adressed yet. And even if they are minor and non game breaking, like the poor state of ship internals, shed a really dim light on this product. And if Cryptic isn't able to adress these issues at all and can only survive by releasing more and more cash-shop items then, I'm really sorry to say that, they failed. Plain and simple. The game's over.

I may be an angrytarg but I'm still here and I still enjoy the game, but I'm being realistic here. I was a subscriber and had no major problem with the game (aside from nitpicking ) but since F2P I'm not willing to spend money on this product because I don't feel it pays off, literally.

I think if many of those issues were fixed it would benefit Cryptic more than just shoving out new cash shop items. We were promised that the cash shop would always be purely cosmetical, never P2W and that cotnent would come before shinies. They broke all of those promises and more - I really don't feel like spending money on particular fixes that were dragging for years. That's the developer's job.
-> STO players unite and say NO to ARC <- -> Click if you prefer the old forum design! <-
-----------------------------------------------------------------
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,857
# 10
07-06-2013, 02:48 AM
And the thing is, STO isn't a console game that comes to an end after a few days of playing.
Until XBox360 and PS3 we didn't even have the ability to patch and update games exept for some PC games.

STO is growing, so is the playerbase. Things are in a motion, in a flow.

Sure there is a lot of stuff that I have problems with, but I also have to say that there are mass reported bugs, like this email bug, that never happened to me. And 90% of all lag reports can I relate to my terrible interent provider.
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