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Lieutenant
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 42
Why is this statement wrong? the two ships are so similar. Im thinking the out of cloak damage boost juuuust puts the defiant over the top.
Captain
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 3,014
# 2
08-17-2013, 01:41 AM
Bug has superior turn and speed, a more flexible boff layout, superior hull, and superior shielding. Defiant pays for the ability to cloak with the loss of a console slot...and it's not even a battle cloak, so you get to use it...once. You're locked to an inflexible boff layout containing an often superfluous Tac Ensign, whereas the JHAS can run 2xEPTx and still carry another Lt Engi skill.

In short, the Fleet Defiant may have its perks, but it ain't one-upping the JHAS.
Lieutenant
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 42
# 3
08-17-2013, 02:03 AM
what it comes down to though is dps. thats what they are really both made for. Does the JHAS pars higher then the fleet defiant retro? not gonna argue the bug is more survivable.......
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,268
# 4
08-17-2013, 02:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mothermoy View Post
what it comes down to though is dps. thats what they are really both made for. Does the JHAS pars higher then the fleet defiant retro? not gonna argue the bug is more survivable.......
The out-of-cloak damage boost is 15% boost to damage for 5 seconds. That's about time for a single alphastrike. It's a nice extra boost, that much is sure.

However, take into consideration the JHAS's higher turnrate and faster speed. This allows it to outmaneuver the Defiant and most other escorts, thus allowing it to keep targets in its weapon arc with greater ease. This leads to higher DPS, especially in PvP.
tIqIpqu' 'ej nom tIqIp
Captain
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 1,204
# 5
08-17-2013, 03:22 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by timezarg View Post
The out-of-cloak damage boost is 15% boost to damage for 5 seconds. That's about time for a single alphastrike. It's a nice extra boost, that much is sure.

However, take into consideration the JHAS's higher turnrate and faster speed. This allows it to outmaneuver the Defiant and most other escorts, thus allowing it to keep targets in its weapon arc with greater ease. This leads to higher DPS, especially in PvP.
Fleet tactical escort does not come with a cloak so the 15% should not be counted. Yes it can use one but unless it comes with one it would be a false to count it.

Not only its increased maneuverability but the better BOFF layout increases surviveability. That means it can stay in the thick of battle for longer periods of time increasing DPS even more. You cant lay down damage if you are dead or out of combat range healing.
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Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,141
# 6
08-17-2013, 04:53 AM
Really, in a standup, 1vs1 fight, most ships compared to the JHAS will have a hard time. The complete package of the JHAS is very hard to beat if flown by a competent player.

There are many, many reasons why you see the JHAS sell for 500 million EC outside of (supposed) "rarity."

The next nastiest thing out there is a Fleet Ha'Feh.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 583
# 7
08-17-2013, 07:55 AM
I made the mistake of grinding for the Zen Defiant then splurging on an FSM to up it to Fleet level (~300K converted Dil down the tubes). Sure, the 5th Tac console slot is nice - but the Boff layout drives you crazy unless you mix in a HY torp or other ensign skill.

And as for the cloak, I find I don't even bother equipping it - the eng console slot is better utilized by a unique universal or even a neutronium since the thing's hull is paper thin.

All of which is why my FTER sits in the hanger. And if and when I feel like taking a break from my FAHCR "uber ship," I'll trot out my Fleet Patrol. Much better Boff flexibility and a 4th eng console slot to boot.

RCK
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 327
# 8
08-19-2013, 07:27 AM
And we all forget the blockade runner XD it's the reason most of my other escorts sit in a hangar 2x lt. eng with an ens sci makes for a nasty little beast
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,141
# 9
08-19-2013, 09:58 AM
The Defiant is for those that know how to squeeze every single drop out of Escort offensive capabilities. There's little room for error. If you have issues with survivability, then yes, choose one of the "safer" Fed Escorts out there.

Of the Fed Escorts, the Defiant is the one that causes the most concern to us in the KDF for PVP. A well played Defiant hits damn hard and is slippery to come to complete grips with. It has the option of a cloak, which is a big deal when it escapes, repairs, then recloaks and chooses when, where, and who to hit at its leisure. Not taking advantage of the cloak is a big mistake (Defiant and Gal-X should have innate cloaks, IMO, and not stuck to a console). The cloak presents a tactical advantage to exploit.

Really, the KDF players would KILL to have a vessel like the Defiant to use.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 106
# 10
08-19-2013, 04:42 PM
I have both the Defiant and JHAS. Playing both STF's and PvP, the JHAS by far outperforms the Defiant... "hands down!" and I'm a big fan of the Defiant. So it's a little blasphemous for me saying this since I'm allegiant to FED ships. I strongly agree with the previous posts, the JHAS turns on a friggin dime, and the shield recovery and flight speed is "wow!" Not to mention the five tac console load out!, Crazy DPS if your equipped with 5x MKII polaron phase modulators! With front dual heavy polaron cannons bundled with the MKII Jem'Hadar ship set. Crazy Nasty!

My only negative using the JHAS, it moves so friggin fast its hard to stay focused on the ship when flying it, gives me a headache... even when zoomed all the way out. It's also so hyper-sensitive when you move left to right or up to down. for me, a 41 year old... it hurts my eyes trying to fly such a zippy little ship.

With the Defiant, I found you have a little more setup and positioning to time your de-cloak alpha strike. Then, once your out of cloak its kinda pointless to turn it back on since it's not a battle cloak... takes forever to turn back on. This really matters in PvP, whereas others will see you run and simply go after you.
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