Career Officer
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 4,932
A mistake one can easily fall prey to, is to think a tact boat needs as much tact stations as possible. Not necessarily so. I'd therefore like you to consider my loadout, made for an engineer (like yours truly):

U.S.S. Liandra

(The empty sci spot on the consoles is supposed to have the 'Indoctrination Nanite Dispersal System', but that's apparently not on the site yet.)

1) I found beams to be very effective on it. Therefore, the Commander Tactical station has FAW2. It also has Torpedo Spread 3, which seems to do wonders for the Romulan Hyper Plasma torp.

2) I am also of the belief your Commander Tactical needs at least 1 debuff. I went with Attack Pattern Beta 3. Keep in mind that you typically come in cloaked, so you're not just randomly cycling, but basically always have that Beta 3 ready when you decloak. Couple this with the +30% decloak bonus dmg you're getting by default, plus the 3x 20% extra decloak dmg I'm getting from using 3x 'superior' Rom boffs, you're coming out decloaked with a sting. The other 2 boffs, btw, are also superior Roms, each with 2.0% extra CrtH.

3) I simply use 2 engi on the Lt. stations, both with EPtS1 and EPtW2. The dual EPtS1 and EPtW2 copies give you more power than you'll ever need, and you'll get a wicked +13.3% all Energy Damage strength for 30 sec from each EPtW2 activated!

Also, keep in mind the Experimental Romulan Plasma beam doesn't draw power when fired together with other beam weps! (It does draw *some* on FAW2, but negligible).

4) For sci, I cycle between Transer Shield Strength 1 and Feedback Pulse 2 (as they're on the same cooldown). Both sci consoles are +Pla: one for extra stealth, the other for extra particle generation. The Indoctrination Nanite Dispersal System fills up the third sci console.

5) Set bonusses:

a: The Assimilated Console + Kinetic Cutting beam give you the awesome Omega Weapons Amplification. You can even complete this set by adding the Omega torp as well, but I find the 3rd bonus rather lackluster myself (1% chance of reducing 99% incoming dmg for 2 secs). YMMV, though.

b: It has the full Romulan 3-part set bonusses.

c: The Indoctrination Nanite Dispersal System is awesome all by itself, but also functions as a (even slightly better than) purple Mk XII Shield Emitter Amplification console (due to being 2nd part of set bonus, together with Tal Shiar Adapted Warp Core).

6) Boff requirements for this build are pretty lax. Basically you'll need 1 that speeds up your Beam Special Attacks (FAW, in this case); and preferably one that shortens your projectile recharge time. And I have 1 Warp Core engineer, to give me a chance to extra power upon EPtX activation. Which leaves you 2, to be Filled At Will (hmm, that's also FAW, lol). You could think of a Deflector Officer, to shorten recharge time of deflector abilities (never hurts to get a bit of that extra feedback pulse going). Or maybe one of the newer boffs that clears all negative effects on you upon EPtX.

Anyway, things to consider.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 577
# 2
07-14-2013, 08:22 AM
Interesting idea,

Couple of things I'd change tho...

Lose the Torp and TorpS, get another beam array and a second copy of FAW,

Swap EPtW2 and EPtS2 for Aux2SIF and RSP1.

Doffs...

Lose the projectile and beam doff and get two damage control,

With two damage control doff you can cycle your EPtX powers for 100% up time on both.

Skill point...

With no Torp you can use those points elsewhere and 3 points in threat and 3 in hull plating gives 0.3% less damage resist than 9 in hull plating.

http://home.comcast.net/~amicus/Skil...%20Effects.htm
------------------------ /\ ------------------------

"The Road To Hell Is Paved With Good Intentions"

Last edited by ussboleyn; 07-14-2013 at 08:27 AM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 4,932
# 3
07-14-2013, 01:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ussboleyn View Post
Interesting idea,

Couple of things I'd change tho...

Lose the Torp and TorpS, get another beam array and a second copy of FAW,
Your mind holds interesting ideas. Not sure I'm ready to let go of torp yet, though. After all, the Romulan Hyper-Plasma Torpedo Launcher unlocks the third part of the Romulan set bonus, the Plasma Hyperflux, giving increased direct damage, and a high damage Plasma Burn DoT for 10 sec (plus a damage resistance debuff for 10 sec on target).

On the other hand, it would indeed free up 2 doff slots.

Quote:
Skill point...

... and 3 points in threat and 3 in hull plating gives 0.3% less damage resist than 9 in hull plating.
Now, this is a *very* interesting notion! I have never even considered putting anything in threat control before, but this little trick of yours would give me 6,000 exttra xp to spend (like maybe 2 bars extra for Energy Weapons Specialization). So, thanks for this; and your feedback in general!
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 14,463
# 4
07-14-2013, 04:19 PM
Different folks will go different ways for different reasons...such as: http://www.stoacademy.com/tools/skil...ld=alttaldes_0

I did quite a few things differently than what you had, well - because I'm a different person and I looked at it differently. Much like it's different than what ussboleyn offered for changes.

First of all, the blanks:

The Engines are the Nukara Rep engines.
The Engineering Console is a Fleet Enhanced Neutronium Mk XII [+HullRep].

That E-Neut provides superior resistance to the normal VR Mk XII Neut and also boosts your hull repair skill boosting any of your hull heals (in this case, AtS - ET - HE - MW).

The Nukara engines, while standard Impulse rather than Hyper - do provide +5(+) Shield Power. This will allow you to place 5 Shield power elsewhere.

2pc MACO instead of the 3pc Borg...well, the MACO shields are resilient - meaning there's only 5% bleedthrough because of 5% absorption. They also have a higher cap than the Borg. On top of that, they provide up to +10 power per subsystem as you take directed energy damage. I'll get into the power thing soon. Also, the 2pc MACO bonus provides a 5% reduction in ability recharges - it's not huge, but you'll be doing everything slightly faster than you would be otherwise.

As for the Deflectors, both provide the same boost to hull HP, Inertial Damps, and Grav Gens. Where the Borg provides +5 Aux Power and a boost to Insulators, the MACO provides a boost to your shield strength, shield healing, as well as a boost to your EPtX abilities and power transfer rates. That +5 Aux you lose, by the way, there's +5 Shield coming from the Nukara engines that can easily be a case of dropping Shields by 5 to increase Aux by 5.

Yes, it means giving up the proc heals/cleanse and tractor. Different folks will feel differently about that.

As for weapons, I didn't do too much there. I left the Arrays as [Acc][CrtH] - some folks might go [CrtD]x2, [Acc][CrtD], [Acc]x2, etc, etc, etc - depending on how they're looking at it - what they want, etc, etc, etc.

I did drop one of the Arrays to add the Omega Torp. Course, I also put the Omega fore and moved the Hyper aft. Adding the Omega Torp adds that small proc chance that massively boosts resist - like any proc though, it's random and should not be counted on. However, it's nifty from time to time. Also, the THY Omega can do some nifty splash when somebody's dropped out a juiced up Grav Well.

I moved the Hyper aft because...well, this is kind of embarrassing - but I could all but guarantee that with it mounted fore that I'd get caught in the splash when using it. I swear Cryptic hates me too, because whenever I would get hit by that splash - it was almost always a 100% chance that it would crit...like a hey, dummy penalty...lol. Also, since I never sit still - it's just one of those things I can quickly offer my rear to the target and TS the Hyper...bazinga!

Hrmm, I also changed out the Devices. SFM provides a nifty +Def boost every now and again, and as for the batteries - I tend to carry whatever I don't have an EPtX for...thus the Aux/Eng since it's running DCE'd EPtS/EPtW.

I'm not skipping the Core, I'll get back to that after most of the rest - it ties into the power stuff.

Consoles, consoles, consoles...hrmm, yeah - already mentioned the replacement for the Neut. The Borg and 0Point are still there, though I moved the 0Point to Sci from Eng. I did that to add the Tachyo which will give you a boost Turn, CrtD, and CrtH (as well as more GravGens we don't care about...meh).

For the Sci Consoles, while I kept the [Pla] - I actually went with +Th instead of -Th. There's no reason that this boat shouldn't be able to tank anything, and it will make it easier on the rest of the folks that perhaps couldn't tank a bag of cotton balls. I went with Emitter Arrays for the boost to shield healing rather than Stealth/PartGens. There's nothing on this particular build that would benefit as much from PartGens as it would additional shield healing (which is also helpful for when you're in that sharing mood). Personally, I can't think of a reason ever to slot a Stealth console. Different folks will obviously think otherwise.

Now we probably get into the part most likely to have folks going "WTF?" in regard to the Tac Consoles. I dropped one in favor of the Nukara Console. Am I crazy? Giving up +30% to damage? Well, if it was actually +30% to damage I wouldn't have done it.

The +30% from that console? It's adding 30 damage per shot for those beam arrays before considering Weapon Power. At 125 Weapon Power, it's adding 75 damage per shot. So before abilities/buffs/debuffs, it's adding 60 DPS per beam. It's doing nothing for the KCB nor the Torps (nor their DoTs). Besides, we've got the 2pc Harness bonus, the Rom Sci consoles, and the Core that I still need to talk about.

The Nukara Console is giving you +10% Accuracy with the 4 beams. It's also giving you another +5 Shield Power that you can allot elsewhere as needed. You're getting a boost to Insulators and some of the PartGens you lost by going with the Emitter Array.

If you've got Accurate, 9 Targeting (as both of the skill builds did), along with the single [Acc] mod on the weapons, and then add in the Nukara console - you're looking at +45% Accuracy. In a sense, it's turned your Rom Arrays into [Acc]x2[CrtH] Arrays - as well as having their [HDisrupt][Pla] mods...5 mod weapons. Depending on the target, with that +45% Accuracy you're going to be looking at Accuracy Overflow which will increase your [CrtD] & [CrtH]...all in all, I'd go from 4->3 to add the Nukara in this case. Wouldn't go 3->2, but if there were only 3 Tac Consoles, then the 4th I'd be using for the Nukara would be elsewhere anyway.

Touching a little more on the Tac Consoles, mind you - unless you've already got the VR Mk XII's or simply have EC spilling out all over the place - you're going to have different folks say different things about their value.

Going from 28.1% to 30%...means adding 1.9 damage per shot before Weapon Power. @125, that's 4.75 DPV or 3.8 DPS before abilities/buffs/debuffs. Upgrading 3 of them would mean 11.4 more DPS after Weapon Power but before abilities/buffs/debuffs. Personally, I find the VR Mk XII's to be one of the biggest scams on the Exchange - because most folks simply do not know how the consoles work.

So uh, BOFFs 'n DOFFs next?

APO is an oft complained about OP ability that does too much some say...but regardless of how one feels on that, it does do a few things. Keep in mind, the tooltip is horribly wrong for it. +Speed/Turn/Def numbers are wrong. The +Dmg is correct though, and it will get you out of those pesky tractors, etc, etc, etc.

While the APB does provide a hull damage resistance debuff - well, you've got multiple chances to proc that debuff coming from your Rom Arrays as well as bigger debuff from using a Hyperflux.

In this particular situation, the APO would be better to me than the APB. Again, different folks will have different thoughts on this.

Went with one TT instead of two, because with manual shield distribution and what the ship is sporting otherwise - even one TT would probably be overkill for most PvE encounters. Dropped the TS3 to a TS2 to take the FAW2 to FAW3 (yes, will require a Tac buddy) - because you're beaming far more than you're torping. I already mentioned the THY Omega and TS Hyper...as far as why both of those are there.

For Sci, dropped the FBP to bump the TSS1 to TSS3 and added in a PH1 in place of the previous TSS1. PH1's just handy for those tractors and also provides an additional nifty hull resist boost.

With Eng, well - I know 4x EPt is pretty common out there - but uh - yeah uh - um - er - yeah - different folks, different strokes. I'm going to DCE or AtB my EPt's rather than 4 slot them. With the 3x DCE (EPt) DOFFs, you're going to have a damn good chance of having full uptime on EPtS1 and EPtW2.

Wait, why EPtS1 and EPtW2? With the MACO shields, better TSS, etc, etc, etc - taking into account how diminishing returns and the cap work in regard to shield damage reduction - to me it makes more sense to go EPtS1 and EPtW2. With the EPtW2, you've got the boost on damage that has no DR - you're also putting more "magical" power into Weapons rather than "real" power - which means that as long as you're comfortable with the amount of overcap drain buffer you have; you could put some of that "real" power elsewhere. Yeah, yeah - I'll get to the Core soon.

Since we're only running a single TT, that gives us some play for another Team - no conflicts, not anything sitting there in case of a rainy day, etc, etc, etc. Could have gone with the ST instead of PH - but to me, an ET would be more helpful. HE on CD? AtS/ET to cover the gap...whether on yourself or somebody else.

DOFFs...well, mentioned the 3x DCE(EPt) - what about the other two? Well, I like the SDO(BFI) DOFF - it might be a remnant thing, but I'm so used to hitting BFI for the potential shield stuff that I tend to run at least one. That 5th DOFF? EWO(Beam)? That's pretty much random. There are so many possibilities that folks could use for that 5th. If I had it, I'd likely go for the WCE(Cleanse). There's just so many things - people discount a lot of what the DOFFs can do...but I think there are plenty of options there for that 5th DOFF.

A note about the BOFF species - generally, they'd be the same (or combos) - but for different reasons. Not so much extending the ambush bonus as providing additional +Def. The less you're getting hit while tanking everything means you can share some of your heals if necessary.

So the Core next? Nope, Skills! Okay, so I'm not going to go into details on the skill stuff. The Threat was already mentioned - some of the stuff is just simple DR issues where I personally don't see the value in going beyond a certain number of points. It's not DR on how much each skill point returns, but rather it's an issue of DR on what each skill level gives (1-3, +18, 4-6, +10, 7-9, +5). If there's any particular questions, sure - I can answer it.

However, I do want to talk about Batteries. While it is rare that I ever actually use a Battery on my Engs, with the EPS Manifold Efficiency Trait that was added with LoR - Battery skill affects the duration of the buff from that. So it's a case of trying to maintain the full uptime on that +10 power to each subsystem when you use those DCE'd EPtX abilities. Of course, there's currently also a bug regarding that when you do that. For the first EPtX or first 15s, you get +10 power to each. For the second EPtX (actually EPtY) or second 15s, you get +20 power to each. Third is +10 again, fourth is +20 again, etc, etc, etc. Ahem, there are far more important bugs for Cryptic fix.

Okay, so now the Core? Nope, Reputation. Didn't see any of the Rep filled out - I filled part of it out on the one linked. Standard stuff.

Okay, so the Core.

Elite Fleet Reinforced Warp Core Mk XII [Rep][S->A][WCap][AMP][SSS]

Okay, so there's the Repair, the 7.5% Shield Power to Aux Power, the boost to Shield and Aux Power, the 130 caps for Shield and Aux power, the Weapon Capacitor which repairs disabled weapons and temporarily boosts Weapon power, and the boost to slipstream speed...

...there's also [AMP]. +3.3% all damage for each subsystem over 75 power. You should have no issue maintaining the +13.2% all damage with this boat.

Disappointed? Not as awesome as expected after reading through all that? Man, so many words...painful...eyes bleeding.

Different things for different folks...I see a very well rounded, perhaps even OP vessel. No, it's not going to be joining the 20k+ Club and go to all the fancy parties - but it's unlikely anybody's going to complain about the damage in your day to day - some might even be jealous. On top of that, you're tanking like a boss and even able to share some heals if the mood strikes you.

So yeah, different things for different folks...

...as an aside, no I do not fly this vessel. I have 4x Eng (3x Sci & 2x Tac). One of my Eng flies a Chel Grett and another flies a JHEC (the other two are languishing Cruiserjocks). The Chel Grett with its 4th aft weapon adds in an additional Rom Array (mine are [Acc]x2). I don't have access to the level of Fleet gear in the build listed, so it varies in other ways as well. The JHEC on the other hand is a Tet/Tet Glider/Widow Tet...mo' tet, mo' tet build...which runs AtB while the Chel runs DCE'd EPt. I could even see doing an AtB build on the TSAD...but hull burns might be a little problematic at times while tanking both a cube and gate - but hey, pop Nimbus for the HE they provide, eh?

Oh well...this took far longer than I thought it would - and - I've got some "Flying High" to do...meh.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 4,932
# 5
07-14-2013, 08:50 PM
Quote:
Now we probably get into the part most likely to have folks going "WTF?" in regard to the Tac Consoles. I dropped one in favor of the Nukara Console. Am I crazy? Giving up +30% to damage? Well, if it was actually +30% to damage I wouldn't have done it.

The +30% from that console? It's adding 30 damage per shot for those beam arrays before considering Weapon Power. At 125 Weapon Power, it's adding 75 damage per shot. So before abilities/buffs/debuffs, it's adding 60 DPS per beam. It's doing nothing for the KCB nor the Torps (nor their DoTs). Besides, we've got the 2pc Harness bonus, the Rom Sci consoles, and the Core that I still need to talk about.

...

The Nukara Console is giving you +10% Accuracy with the 4 beams.
WTF!? Are you crazy!? Seriously, though, I am familiar with the idea of using Nukara Parpticle console. In fact, I recently installed [Dmg]x2 [CrtH] Elite phaser beam arrays on my Fleet Excelsior. The Nukara console basically fills in the 'missing' modifier, so as to effectively make them [Dmg]x2 [CrtH] [Acc]. And the extra shield power never hurts.

Personally I can't justify using the Nukara console here, though -- at least not at the expense of a tact console. For one, you also get the +5 shield power bonus from the Borg shields.

And the Tachyokinetic Converter, yeah, it's a beast, with nice CrtH and CrtD bonusses. But you don't really need the extra turn rate on this boat, and you basically gave up the Indoctrination Nanite Dispersal System for it; more to the point, the 2nd part of the ship set bonus, which brings 2.5% hull repair every 60 secs, plus +20% Shield Regeneration -- making it the best Shield Emitter Amplifier in game (purple Mk XII is only +15%).

Which brings me to your 2x Shield Emitters. That seems a bit much. In your loadout, you basically only have 1 ability that truly benefits from it: TSS3. It does help a *bit* with EPtS too, but I've never seen EPtS be anything else than instant on my ships to begin with. I'm much more partial to Shield Emitter Amplifiers myself (that cause faster shield regeneration; hence the Indoctrination Nanite Dispersal System -- see above). Like you say, though, much is just a matter of taste and personal preference, really.

Quote:
There's nothing on this particular build that would benefit as much from PartGens as it would additional shield healing (which is also helpful for when you're in that sharing mood). Personally, I can't think of a reason ever to slot a Stealth console.
The reason I slotted a [Pla] Stealth console, is that often I found myself getting detected, causing me to decloak unvoluntarily (I have 0/9 in Stealth. I'm a Fed: I never expected to be needing cloaking skills). As I made my build around huge Alpha dmg (+60% extra dmg upon decloak), I don't want a stray NPC ruining the moment for me. I could easily put an Emitter in; but, like you, I only have 1 skill that would really profit from it: TS1.

As for particle gens, keep in mind I use the full MK XII Borg set. It has a wicked 'free' Assimilated Tractor Beam, which I really love. With my above setup and skills, I get around 97 on Particle Gens, and 110 in Flow Caps. You release that Borg Tractor Beam on a foe, and they melt right in front of your eyes. Never really understand why, really, LOL. I mean, on paper, it shouldn't be that effective, but in practice it's a killer.

Also, my cycled Feedback Pulse (together with TS1) greatly benefits from Particle generation. If you have 0/9 in Flow Caps and Particle Gens, though, like you, I can see how it would not be all that useful to you.

Quote:
Went with one TT instead of two, because with manual shield distribution and what the ship is sporting otherwise - even one TT would probably be overkill for most PvE encounters. Dropped the TS3 to a TS2 to take the FAW2 to FAW3 (yes, will require a Tac buddy) - because you're beaming far more than you're torping. I already mentioned the THY Omega and TS Hyper...as far as why both of those are there.
I should experiment a bit with this, yes. FAW3 + APO is probably better, indeed.

I considered adding the Omega torp as well. But then, I figured, it becomes half a torp boat again; and (like you) I concluded it's really a beam boat primarily. Also, the effectiveness of THY1 is in question by some. And I also wanted to create a build around the Romulan/Reman space set, that gives extra bonus to THY + Plasma torp (in fact, I did; built my Adapted Cruiser around that concept).

There's something to be said for your tact setup, though, as cycling THY1 + TS2/3 makes both trigger a lot faster (as they're obviously on same cooldown).

I enjoyed your comments very much, btw. As the other contributions in this thread. A different pair of eyes can always offer a new and fresh perspective.

P.S. Our mining facility isn't at Tier 3 yet. So, no Mk XII Neutroniums for me yet.

Last edited by meimeitoo; 07-14-2013 at 08:53 PM.
Cryptic Studios Team
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 240
# 6
07-14-2013, 11:00 PM
I think I'll give this build a try with my KDF-affiliated Reman!
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,452
# 7
07-15-2013, 12:30 AM
I've been using beams on an escort for a while now. It actually works out really well, you can orbit a target at full speed to get a movement defense bonus, while holding it in the broadside arc.

This build is for the HEC/FHEC, but its principles could be adapted to other escorts easily enough, including the Adapted Destroyer.

Quote:
I use this on my science captain. With the Sci captain powers, it's a great debuffer with high pressure DPS. A tac captain would be able to add some spike DPS. An engineer captain would make it more survivable.

Fore:

Wide Angle Quantum Torpedo

Beam Arrays x3

Aft:

Beam Arrays x2, Cutting Beam

Don't be tempted by dual beam banks. You get the most mileage from beams by broadsiding with the fore and aft arc overlap, and with an escort, it's even easier to keep enemies within that arc. I use phasers and quantums because I like canon stuff. Romulan Plasma will get you the most DPS. The Experimental Beam Array will get you even more.
If you don't have access to a broadside torpedo like the wide-angle, use a regular torp of your choice or just use seven beam arrays. Again, the Experimental Beam Array would be handy.

Equipment:

Use whatever set you like

I've got an Elite Fleet [SciCdr] Deflector and the MACO engine and shield. Their 2-piece bonus stacks with the deflector to give me 15% off the cooldowns of my science powers. You can use any ship components you wish, but a good resilient shield is always recommended.

Consoles:

TPDS, Borg, Neutronium

Emitter Arrays from the embassy and/or a Field Generator

Energy damage (Phaser Relays for me)

I use two -Th embassy consoles and one field gen. One downside to beam FAW spammer is that it can draw a lot of aggro. If there's a cruiser being a good tank, which is often the case in our groups, that isn't a problem. But even with threat reduction, this ship is going to get shot at sometimes. If there's no tank and I'm doing the most damage, which is rare but can happen, I tend to die a lot.

Boffs:

Cmdr Tac: APB3, APB2, FAW2, TT1

Lt Tac: FAW2, TS1

Ens Tac: TS1

Lt Cmdr Eng: EPtS1, Aux to SIF1, EPtW3

Lt Sci: TSS1, HE2

Note 1: You've got to duplicate both APB and FAW to spam them as frequently as possible. These abilities produce most of your damage; use them constantly. APB synergizes with FAW to debuff every target in range, which acts as a force-multiplier for the entire team.

Note 2: Even with -Th consoles, this ship has to pack a good deal of healing ability for those occasions when it draws aggro. When that isn't happening, you can use those heals on others: HE, TSS, and Aux to SIF are all self or ally.

Doffs:

Tac Team Conn Officer x2

Damage Control Engineer x3

Last edited by futurepastnow; 07-15-2013 at 12:36 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 14,463
# 8
07-15-2013, 12:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by meimeitoo View Post
There's something to be said for your tact setup, though, as cycling THY1 + TS2/3 makes both trigger a lot faster (as they're obviously on same cooldown).
While it has limited use outside of PvP or perhaps as part of a decloak alpha where you're looking to get some more damage - you can actually have a little fun with a pair of torp abilities since you're cloaked. Which you may know already, but others reading may not.

Pop Tx. The length of Tx's buff is longer (twice as long) as the triggered CD caused by Tx on Ty. Pop Ty. But you don't fire your torps yet. You wait until Tx's buff has almost worn off (which will be near the same time that the triggered CD on Tx caused by Ty will wear off). Leave yourself that second or so for the activation on the torps. You fire the torps. You get Tx on the first and Ty on the second...and...Tx is ready again. Tx + Ty + Tx - tada!

Definitely easier to pull off while cloaked, imho - since you don't have any distractions of something firing at you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by meimeitoo View Post
Personally I can't justify using the Nukara console here, though -- at least not at the expense of a tact console.
With the +45% Accuracy those particular beams would have with the Nukara console, you'd be looking at the following dependent on the target's +Def (given that folks don't really need Acc for PvE in general, have to figure that +Def is going to be low - so I'll just give numbers between 0 to 45 - every 15 or so to keep it short):

vs. +0 Def: 100% To-Hit, +3.9% CrtH & +15.5% CrtD
vs. +15 Def: 100% To-Hit, +2.8% CrtH & +11.5% CrtD
vs. +30 Def: 100% To-Hit, +1.6% CrtH & +6.5% CrtD
vs. +45 Def: 100% To-Hit, No Accuracy Overflow

At +35% Accuracy instead:

vs. +0 Def: 100% To-Hit, +3.2% CrtH & +12.96% CrtD
vs. +15 Def: 100% To-Hit, +2.1% CrtH & +8.3% CrtD
vs. +30 Def: 100% To-Hit, +0.6% CrtH & +2.4% CrtD
vs. +45 Def: 90.1% To-Hit

As an aside, that +45 Def is interesting - because that's the amount of +Def a target has if it is moving at 24 impulse or faster. One covers the pesky EPtE and the other likely doesn't. But that's an aside.

Before continuing, let's take a look at what the damage of one of those arrays would be, eh?

Base = 100 (100 is the DPV of a Std/Mk 0 Beam Array)
+ (100 * (1.299 * 0.5)) = 164.95 (Weapon Training - 9 Skill Levels +30 from the Omega Weapon Training passive)
+ (100 * (0.999 * 0.5)) = 214.9 (Energy Weapons - 9 Skill Levels)
+ (100 * 1.2) = 334.9 (Mark XII)
+ (100 * (4 * 0.025)) = 344.9 (Very Rare)
* (1 + ((125-50) * 0.02))) = 862.25 (@125 Weapon Power)

So let's see what that would be with 4x VR Mk XII Infusers and with 3x...

w/4x
Base = 100 (100 is the DPV of a Std/Mk 0 Beam Array)
+ (100 * (1.299 * 0.5)) = 164.95 (Weapon Training - 9 Skill Levels +30 from the Omega Weapon Training passive)
+ (100 * (0.999 * 0.5)) = 214.9 (Energy Weapons - 9 Skill Levels)
+ (100 * 1.2) = 334.9 (Mark XII)
+ (4 * (100 * 0.30)) = 454.9 (4x VR Mk XII Infusers)
+ (100 * (4 * 0.025)) = 464.9 (Very Rare)
* (1 + ((125-50) * 0.02))) = 1162.25 (@125 Weapon Power)

w/3x
Base = 100 (100 is the DPV of a Std/Mk 0 Beam Array)
+ (100 * (1.299 * 0.5)) = 164.95 (Weapon Training - 9 Skill Levels +30 from the Omega Weapon Training passive)
+ (100 * (0.999 * 0.5)) = 214.9 (Energy Weapons - 9 Skill Levels)
+ (100 * 1.2) = 334.9 (Mark XII)
+ (3 * (100 * 0.30)) = 424.9 (3x VR Mk XII Infusers)
+ (100 * (4 * 0.025)) = 434.9 (Very Rare)
* (1 + ((125-50) * 0.02))) = 1087.25 (@125 Weapon Power)

So before any abilities/buffs/debuffs, the additional +30% console is providing ~+6.9% DPV/DPS.

Okay then, against a non-moving target (there are a few out there) - what would be the difference in damage provided just by the +CrtD from the Accuracy Overflow?

4x: 1162.25 non-crit, 1894 crit (base 50% +12.96% from the Accuracy Overflow)
3x: 1087.25 non-crit, 1799.4 crit (base 50% +15.5% from the Accuracy Overflow)

But wait, that's still ~+5.3% more damage from the 4x over the 3x.

Cause that's not the whole picture. Let's add up all the +CrtD and +CrtH we've got going on, eh?

4x no Tachyo
CrtH (+18.51%)
+2.5% Base
+3.2% Accuracy Overflow
+1.09% Energy Weapon Specialization
+3.0% Precision (New Rom Rep)
+0.92% Borg Console
+1.8% 0Point Console
+4.0% (2x Sup Op)
+2.0% ([CrtH] mod on the array)

CrtD (+95.76%)
+50% Base
+12.96% Accuracy Overflow
+13.6% Energy Weapon Specialization
+9.2% Borg Console
+10.0% (2x Sup Op)


3x Tachyo/Nukara
CrtH (+19.97%)
+2.5% Base
+3.9% Accuracy Overflow
+1.09% Energy Weapon Specialization
+3.0% Precision (New Rom Rep)
+0.92% Borg Console
+1.8% 0Point Console
+4.0% (2x Sup Op)
+2.0% ([CrtH] mod on the array)
+0.76% Tachyo Console

CrtD (+105.9%)
+50% Base
+15.5% Accuracy Overflow
+13.6% Energy Weapon Specialization
+9.2% Borg Console
+10.0% (2x Sup Op)
+7.6% Tachyo Console

So all that for a +1.46% CrtH and +10.14% CrtD?

The damage would be...

4x Crit: 2275.2
3x Crit: 2238.7

The 4x is still ~+1.6% better and you've done all this math? Are you crazy? Heh, a little flaky perhaps - but I'm not actually talking to myself there - I'm talking to myself on behalf of anybody reading this who might be asking, "Are you crazy?"

Hey, I took a +30% console that was giving +6.9% and reduced it to +1.6%...I think that's pretty good so far.

Besides, that's ignoring that it has a +1.46% better chance to crit.

4x non-Crit: 1162.3
3x Crit: 2238.7

That gives the 3x +92.6% the damage of the 4x...er...if that +1.46% ever comes into play.

But that's against a stationary target - that's biased/haxmath!

Okay, so let's go with a moving target - a target moving at 24 impulse or more, eh? That takes us back to the +6.9%...VD, you're losing us here (speaking for you - I don't hear voices). Yep, that takes us back to the +6.9%...but don't forget, the 4x only has 90.1% chance to hit while the 3x has a 100% chance to hit. That 9.9% chance to miss means 0 damage on the missed shot.

So all of this was just to point out the potential gamble of going with the Nukara 3x doing more damage than the 4x Tac? Gambling on a +1.46% CrtH and a possible To-Hit that may or may not ever come into play as long as the target never has more than +35% Defense?

Like I said...different things for different folks. If there's no concern about the target's defense being over +35 and +1.46% is too small of a bonus to CrtH....well then, I'd have to agree with not going with the Nukara console over a 4th Tac console - based solely on the above, mind you.

Don't forget what else I changed and the overall build design goals. That +5 Shield Power - means that +5 Subsystem Power can be applied elsewhere. The goal being to have all four Subsystems over 75 all the time for the +13.3% All Damage boost from the [AMP] mod on the EF Core. There's also wanting to boost Aux outside of that, just for the little additional damage that it would provide for the Aux Power Config - Offense passive from the Nukara Rep.

Yeah, if that +5 Shield resulted in +5 being pumped to Aux, that would mean +1 added to Weapon Training, Energy Weapons, and Projectile Weapons. @125 Weapon Power...that would mean...? Would mean? +2.5 damage... /cough Really? Yep, 0.5 damage from Weapon Training and 0.5 damage from Energy Weapons....1 damage, *2.5 from Weapon Power for +2.5 damage per volley (only +2 DPS). Laugh if you will, but that drops it from +6.9% to +6.7% - muahahahaha!

Yeah, I'm not going to rework any of the other math to include the +13.3%, the +2.5 damage, etc, etc, etc.

Again, it was just to show how different folks might look at it - without one necessarily being crazy...just more of a risk taker with regard to Crits and less of a risk taker with regard to To-Hits.

Quote:
Originally Posted by meimeitoo View Post
As for particle gens
My bad if it wasn't clear - wasn't a case of saying there wasn't a need on your build - was a case of saying there wasn't a need on the build I threw together there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by meimeitoo View Post
I considered adding the Omega torp as well. But then, I figured, it becomes half a torp boat again; and (like you) I concluded it's really a beam boat primarily. Also, the effectiveness of THY1 is in question by some. And I also wanted to create a build around the Romulan/Reman space set, that gives extra bonus to THY + Plasma torp (in fact, I did; built my Adapted Cruiser around that concept).
While I pushed for the change to Infusers (and pushed for them to reverse the similar change they were going to do for the Rom Sci [Pla]) - I got nowhere with the 2pc Rom Harness bonus. So yeah, there's the "rainbow" effect going on with mixing energy/projectile.

Also, there's been reports/chatter regarding several bugs involving TS/THY. Such as...

TS never misses.
THY can miss - unless it's a targetable, because targetables never miss either.

Fun stuff...fun stuff.

I do run the Omega as well as the Hyper along with the KCB, Experimental, and 4x Rom Arrays on my Eng's Chel Grett - but again, he's got 8 weapon slots instead of 7. Could definitely see if somebody didn't think the 3pc "near" invulnerability's proc rate justified it and simply went with another Rom Array. I've been doing that on another boat, where I've been trying to decide on that 3pc proc or another Tet array. I've had some close calls without the 3pc when dancing with the cube and gate at the same time - usually a case of remembering to save Nimbus for those instances.

Speaking of having both the Omega and Hyper on my alt build...

Quote:
Originally Posted by meimeitoo View Post
And the Tachyokinetic Converter, yeah, it's a beast, with nice CrtH and CrtD bonusses. But you don't really need the extra turn rate on this boat
Since it's mainly a beam boat - thus mainly a broadside boat - the ability to flip fore/aft 90 arcs faster for the two torps can be helpful. It's a constant zig-zag thing...sometimes a duck and weave thing - a general positioning thing.

Again, so much of it all - something I kept trying to reiterate - was how it's different things for different folks. Wasn't a case of saying your build was bad - here's a better one - or anything like that in the least...

I'm a wheeeeee pilot that likes to be missed, likes not to miss, and likes to crit - and generally likes an overall balanced vessel. I'm never going to try to get into the 20k Club with any build that I'd fly - that's just not my thing.

Heck, what I remember from my last parse wasn't the damage (outside of being the highest DPS - but that was complete /facepalm, there's no way that Tet JHEC should have been) - but the stats that I remember were that I took twice the base damage of anybody else while only taking ~19% of that damage as actual damage and the Borg averaging a 24.6% miss rate.

Yep, it allows me to fly around going wheeeeee - which would be reflected in the alt build I offered there.

Admittedly, that build was a little different than what I would fly - it was more of a "sharing" build - which I tend not to do much of, ahem. Yep, generally speaking I'd go with the 4th Tac Console, drop the two Rom Sci consoles, slot the Nukara, and add a rare Mk XI Field Gen. I'd wheeeee just as much - but others might not have as much fun, ahem.
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,792
# 9
07-15-2013, 12:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by virusdancer View Post
Disappointed? Not as awesome as expected after reading through all that? Man, so many words...painful...eyes bleeding...
Meimeitoo and Virusdancer, thank you both for your in-depth build infos. I wish more people would take the time to explain so verbosely!

You can find/contact me in game as @PatricianVetinari. Original Join Date: Feb 2010.
Need Help with Ship's Power? Check out my Ship Power Guide and Calculator.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 14,463
# 10
07-15-2013, 04:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lordhavelock View Post
Meimeitoo and Virusdancer, thank you both for your in-depth build infos. I wish more people would take the time to explain so verbosely!
Meh, even as I went to post this my internet flaked out again...but I'll type it out again. I wanted to come back and edit my last post up there to include some info; but my internet has been kerfuct for the most part.

First, I don't fly the Tal Dessie. That was just a speculative/extrapolated build off of a Chel Grett that one of my Eng flies: http://www.stoacademy.com/tools/skil...build=vdchel_0 Yep, need to upgrade the Core and want to upgrade the Neut.

Second, I wanted to link to two of Big Red's posts on Accuracy/Defense...

http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/sh...d.php?t=218935
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/sh...d.php?t=218273

...talking about the old STOked podcast where Geko got into it. There's a link to a nifty spreadsheet to help folks figure out what their To-Hit and Accuracy Overflow/etc would be in different situations.

Third, I wanted to point out that my breakdown of the Energy Weapon damage is almost entirely/completely/basically based on posts by bareel throughout the forums - just a case of trying to share that info.

Fourth, last - but not least, I was also going to link your to your updated powercalc - something that was extraordinarily helpful during the LoR beta for build planning/discussion on power and has been so since: http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/sh...d.php?t=532731

There's a lot of good info out there for players on some of the more cryptic things Cryptic has done.
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