Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,474
# 41
07-24-2013, 03:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by irwin109 View Post
And as far as I'm aware the fact is that anyone can kill any ship with the right build, if you don't want to rework your build to decloak and pop Rommies then suck it up and face the fact that your build isn't made for Rommie popping, just like tanks have to suck it up and face the fact that while they probably won't die, they probably won't kill anyone either.
You're 1st statement is opinion not fact. Using the word fact in a statement doesn't make the statement a fact.

1.a. Ships limit build options. A ship may not be able to have the "right build" based on those limits.
b. Even if player has the "right build" that player may still not be able to effectively utilize that build.
c. Some ship "right build" combined w/the quality player won't be popped by any single ship.

2.a. I have builds which can decloak and pop Rommies (including Rommy builds). This doesn't mean that Rommy ships aren't empirically better.
b. This has nothing to do w/some ship builds not being able to have abilities beyond their designed roles.
c. This is about Rommy ships being able to do most roles better than most KDF options.
[Zone] Dack@****: cowards can't take a fed 1 on 1 crinckley cowards Hahahaha you smell like flowers
Random Quote from Kerrat
"Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
C&H Fed banter
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,860
# 42
07-24-2013, 09:05 PM
Lol I have also updated my signature to illustrate the erroneous perspective people seem to have about sto. It is rather impressive how much closer to the truth this is, more than any other pvp reflections shenanigans.
Reality is WAR
KHG Klingon Honor Guard
Career Officer
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 498
# 43
07-24-2013, 10:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by p2wsucks View Post
You're 1st statement is opinion not fact. Using the word fact in a statement doesn't make the statement a fact.
*Your
And I could say exactly exactly the same about your first erroneous comment as you're referring to facts that just aren't true.

Quote:
Originally Posted by p2wsucks View Post
1.a. Ships limit build options. A ship may not be able to have the "right build" based on those limits.
There are great builds for each ship, a lot of which were made to deal with the KDF cloaks and can be transferred to a lot of KDF ships.
The alternative is to use a different ship or build.

Quote:
Originally Posted by p2wsucks View Post
b. Even if player has the "right build" that player may still not be able to effectively utilize that build.
So we should nerf everything because of the worse players rather than inspire them to get better?

Quote:
Originally Posted by p2wsucks View Post
c. Some ship "right build" combined w/the quality player won't be popped by any single ship.
Possibly, but then chances are it won't do much killing either, besides unless you're doing a private 1vs1 this will never matter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by p2wsucks View Post
2.a. I have builds which can decloak and pop Rommies (including Rommy builds). This doesn't mean that Rommy ships aren't empirically better.
No it means there are ways of defeating them, they are not an ultimate faction, which is what Retro (the OP) was complaining about.

Quote:
Originally Posted by p2wsucks View Post
b. This has nothing to do w/some ship builds not being able to have abilities beyond their designed roles.
c. This is about Rommy ships being able to do most roles better than most KDF options.
This again is not true, it's the players not the ships, if you're not willing to adjust to an ever-changing game then of course you'll be left in the dust. Adapt and overcome.

When a ship is designed it is given x amount of 'points' let's say for example a T5 ship gets 100 points, those points will be divided amongst b'off slots, hull strength, cloak, shields etc, in that respect all ships of the same tier are the same. What makes the difference is your skills, consoles and weaponry choices. Those who think that the Rommies are OP should see how many are popping in Ker'rat and the Arenas, I don't think I've seen one decloak and survive without having to cloak again and run, which lets not forget is a KDF tactic also.

"If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe." - Carl Sagan
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,474
# 44
07-25-2013, 03:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by irwin109 View Post
*Your
And I could say exactly exactly the same about your first erroneous comment as you're referring to facts that just aren't true.


There are great builds for each ship, a lot of which were made to deal with the KDF cloaks and can be transferred to a lot of KDF ships.
The alternative is to use a different ship or build.


So we should nerf everything because of the worse players rather than inspire them to get better?


Possibly, but then chances are it won't do much killing either, besides unless you're doing a private 1vs1 this will never matter.


No it means there are ways of defeating them, they are not an ultimate faction, which is what Retro (the OP) was complaining about.


This again is not true, it's the players not the ships, if you're not willing to adjust to an ever-changing game then of course you'll be left in the dust. Adapt and overcome.

When a ship is designed it is given x amount of 'points' let's say for example a T5 ship gets 100 points, those points will be divided amongst b'off slots, hull strength, cloak, shields etc, in that respect all ships of the same tier are the same. What makes the difference is your skills, consoles and weaponry choices. Those who think that the Rommies are OP should see how many are popping in Ker'rat and the Arenas, I don't think I've seen one decloak and survive without having to cloak again and run, which lets not forget is a KDF tactic also.
The points 1a-c seem to have gone over your head. In a nutshell they were made to disprove the obvious fallacy of the 1st part of your initial reply to a post of mine. They were meant to be as absurd as your initial point.

This game has been nothing but power creep since even before f2p came out, that wheel keeps on turning and atm Rommy ships are better at doing most things than KDF ships by the numbers.

The reality is ships aren't designed to be balanced to each other and a Dev admitted that over a year ago in a Video interview on STOked, you're kidding yourself if you think otherwise.
[Zone] Dack@****: cowards can't take a fed 1 on 1 crinckley cowards Hahahaha you smell like flowers
Random Quote from Kerrat
"Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
C&H Fed banter
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 242
# 45
07-25-2013, 04:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by p2wsucks View Post

This game has been nothing but power creep since even before f2p came out, that wheel keeps on turning and atm Rommy ships are better at doing most things than KDF ships by the numbers.
KDF still have carriers and battlecruisers. Most Romulans can't turn with fed scorts or bugs without using cloaks. BOPs have zero problems with this. And yes I ran a BOP that didn't run away post alpha. Because of the insane turn rate on those things it is managable to actually finish a kill if all his buddies arent ready to jump on top of you. I'm having fun with Rommies but they are not better at everything. I still see lots of recluses, bugs, JH dreadnaughts, atroxs, dominating PvP for the most part. The only real difference is better awareness and preparation to deal with cloakers on both sides of PvP and also as a KDF aligned I have to actually watch out for alpha decloaks. Before there were only a few Defiants around and they were easy to spot uner cloak with a Sci toon.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 130
# 46
07-25-2013, 04:46 PM
FYI

Romulens have 2 weakness which can be easily exploited!

Weak hull

Exploit by, creating or sending your kin dps after Romulans.

(no order)
Option one DEM Boat

Option two Torp boat

The other is a very easy kdf exploit

Just drain the s#$ker

-40 power base = easy target


Another word from the box of chocolates which is STO

Min - Max your build , & diversify your team.

WHAT WE NEED THOUGH IS BETTER BO SPACE PASSIVES, DIVERSIFY STO INTO GREATNESS
Nova Core
ParadiseKiller

House of Beautiful Orions
Zeadonouse
ToLate

Last edited by paradise1killer; 07-25-2013 at 05:55 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,474
# 47
07-25-2013, 05:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by alopen View Post
KDF still have carriers and battlecruisers. Most Romulans can't turn with fed scorts or bugs without using cloaks. BOPs have zero problems with this. And yes I ran a BOP that didn't run away post alpha. Because of the insane turn rate on those things it is managable to actually finish a kill if all his buddies arent ready to jump on top of you. I'm having fun with Rommies but they are not better at everything. I still see lots of recluses, bugs, JH dreadnaughts, atroxs, dominating PvP for the most part. The only real difference is better awareness and preparation to deal with cloakers on both sides of PvP and also as a KDF aligned I have to actually watch out for alpha decloaks. Before there were only a few Defiants around and they were easy to spot uner cloak with a Sci toon.
Most Raider builds a Tvaro can do better. Tvaro has an xtra ens Boff, rear weapon mount, EBC, Rommy Boff fitting capabilities, Singularity powers etc.

The destoyer class Rommy wins hands down. It why the Rommy Vet ship looks weak, yet the KDF is a viable option even though they're basically the same.

Sci lolz, Rommy.

KDF BCs have a movement boost over Rommy cruisers, but Rommy cruisers can station Rommy boffs which means they can get 15 second decloak damage bonus (instead of just 5), and stronger base and crit stats of decloak boosts, and recloak more often and while in battle (BCs+recloak cooldown timers. They also have singularity abilities. The play style is different, but Rommy cruisers aren't at a disadvantage.

Escorts, Rommy BCs w/5 Tac consoles, Rommy Boffs stations ...

This leaves Carriers as you mentioned, and I mentioned in a previous post as well as a few Niche BoP builds based on Uni slots being available.

Lotto ships have nothing to do w/most KDF build options being done better by Rommy ships. It just goes to re-enforce the power creep I mentioned.
[Zone] Dack@****: cowards can't take a fed 1 on 1 crinckley cowards Hahahaha you smell like flowers
Random Quote from Kerrat
"Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
C&H Fed banter
Commander
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 396
# 48
07-25-2013, 11:11 PM
I don't think battle cloak is really the problem. The problem is that only the science captains have a truly effective cloak detection so if you get on a team with no science officer then you're kind of shooting at shadows.
If they added something like maybe a sensor buoy ability that any one could use that spawned a stationary detection pet but had weak stats so it could be shot easily then maybe the cat and mouse game wouldn't be so one sided.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 242
# 49
07-26-2013, 04:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by p2wsucks View Post
Most Raider builds a Tvaro can do better. Tvaro has an xtra ens Boff, rear weapon mount, EBC, Rommy Boff fitting capabilities, Singularity powers etc.

The destoyer class Rommy wins hands down. It why the Rommy Vet ship looks weak, yet the KDF is a viable option even though they're basically the same.

Sci lolz, Rommy.

KDF BCs have a movement boost over Rommy cruisers, but Rommy cruisers can station Rommy boffs which means they can get 15 second decloak damage bonus (instead of just 5), and stronger base and crit stats of decloak boosts, and recloak more often and while in battle (BCs+recloak cooldown timers. They also have singularity abilities. The play style is different, but Rommy cruisers aren't at a disadvantage.

Escorts, Rommy BCs w/5 Tac consoles, Rommy Boffs stations ...

This leaves Carriers as you mentioned, and I mentioned in a previous post as well as a few Niche BoP builds based on Uni slots being available.

Lotto ships have nothing to do w/most KDF build options being done better by Rommy ships. It just goes to re-enforce the power creep I mentioned.
1) I'd take a KDF BC over the D any day of the week and twice on Sunday. You are over valuing battlecloaking while being fired at and there is an enormouse differnce in a base 10 turn over a 5 turn or even 7 turn by using up two console slots for the D. Don't forget that KDF can get rom op through the embassy. Its not as accdessible or cheap as the Romulan access to them but its not like Roms ONLY have romulan operative.

2) It is absolutely idiotic that KDF don't have more ships with 5 tac consoles. I will conceed that point very angrily at Cryptic.

3) Romulan T'Varos are not anywhere near as flexible as B'rel retros. Again the travesty is the the fleet version of the Brel needs tier 5 SB and only adds a eng console, while the T'varo has a fleet version with an additional tac console at tier 1 SB. Comparing the non-fleet versions T'varo has more hull and an additional rear weapon but B'rel has more flexibility. Meh, neither are dominating PvP. I think the love fest with the red ball of doom is silly as it never works in PvP unless the tgt is 1) an idiot; 2) already locked down so that even a captain kirk with rainbow boats could kill him; or 3) his comp is locked down from all the post LoR spam splattered all over the place in PvP. And the 3rd turret isn't going to make or break an alpha.

4) Uhn no on the Sci, KDF has temporal ship and Roms don't. When Cryptic fixes that then you can cry wolf.

5) Lobi ships still have the edge over everybody else and since most of the hardcore PvP guys fly a bug, recluse, or temporal ship 9 times out of 10 regardless of what faction they play as, PvP is not that affected by Romulans as you suggest. This is powercreep that was here before the Rommies. If old powercreep is better than new powercreep I fail to see how the new version of powercreep is powercreep at all. My problem is less with powercreep but more with spam. PvP turns into a slideshow with all the yellowstones, Elite drones, tholian webs, TB mines flying around nowadays.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,474
# 50
07-26-2013, 12:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by alopen View Post
1) I'd take a KDF BC over the D any day of the week and twice on Sunday. You are over valuing battlecloaking while being fired at and there is an enormouse differnce in a base 10 turn over a 5 turn or even 7 turn by using up two console slots for the D. Don't forget that KDF can get rom op through the embassy. Its not as accdessible or cheap as the Romulan access to them but its not like Roms ONLY have romulan operative.

2) It is absolutely idiotic that KDF don't have more ships with 5 tac consoles. I will conceed that point very angrily at Cryptic.

3) Romulan T'Varos are not anywhere near as flexible as B'rel retros. Again the travesty is the the fleet version of the Brel needs tier 5 SB and only adds a eng console, while the T'varo has a fleet version with an additional tac console at tier 1 SB. Comparing the non-fleet versions T'varo has more hull and an additional rear weapon but B'rel has more flexibility. Meh, neither are dominating PvP. I think the love fest with the red ball of doom is silly as it never works in PvP unless the tgt is 1) an idiot; 2) already locked down so that even a captain kirk with rainbow boats could kill him; or 3) his comp is locked down from all the post LoR spam splattered all over the place in PvP. And the 3rd turret isn't going to make or break an alpha.

4) Uhn no on the Sci, KDF has temporal ship and Roms don't. When Cryptic fixes that then you can cry wolf.

5) Lobi ships still have the edge over everybody else and since most of the hardcore PvP guys fly a bug, recluse, or temporal ship 9 times out of 10 regardless of what faction they play as, PvP is not that affected by Romulans as you suggest. This is powercreep that was here before the Rommies. If old powercreep is better than new powercreep I fail to see how the new version of powercreep is powercreep at all. My problem is less with powercreep but more with spam. PvP turns into a slideshow with all the yellowstones, Elite drones, tholian webs, TB mines flying around nowadays.
1. Your 1st point reads more like a playstyle choice than anything. Also, I think you should read up on ALL the Rommy Boff traits not just what can be gotten from the embassy store. I really do think you're selling the fire power potential of Rommy Cruisers short.

2. N/A - we agree

3. I didn't bring Rommy consoles into it. The super slow to target and move torp is lolz, others aren't and Rommies also have access to most other cross faction consoles. I acknowledged there are niche raider builds the Tvaro can't utilize, but the majority of effective Raider builds involve a Commander Tac and Lt Commander Sci or Eng which the Tvaro can run, it's a better ship for most functions.

4. Temp Sci ship is not a KDF ship, Rommies have a true high rank Sci ship that has a battle cloak ...

5. Why are you bring up Lobi ships? I'm comparing Romulan ships to KDF ships ...
[Zone] Dack@****: cowards can't take a fed 1 on 1 crinckley cowards Hahahaha you smell like flowers
Random Quote from Kerrat
"Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
C&H Fed banter
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 03:26 PM.