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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 132
I've noticed a trend recently in the composition of premade teams: The escorts are being replaced by T'varo and D'helan warbirds.

Why? Because they are capable of the highest spike damage, can kill their target in a single burst, and escape/recloak before being killed.

How?

1) Romulan bridge officers increasing the effectiveness of ambush when decloaking for massive burst damage.

2) Beam Overload 1 and Beam Overload 3 being double stacked while inside the cloak, in conjunction with the beam overload duty officers.

3) Fully offensive science and engineering bridge officer skills, including Tractor Beam and Directed Energy Modulation.

4) No need for defense: after a quick 5 second kill, they simply follow this procedure:
----a) Singularity Jump: Will move them away from danger and placate the opponent, as well as hold anyone near you.
----b) Emergency Power to Engines: Following the singularity jump, move 20km away before anyone has time to react.
----c) Battle Cloak: Safely disappear, removing self from being a target. Being so far away negates the possibility that a CPB or tractor beam will be a problem.
----d) Repeat 1-3

What good is this? On teams with 3 tanky healers, it effectively forces the opposing team to target who you want. The T'varo and the D'helan will only be visible for a brief 5 second window, hardly long enough to maneuver into the firing arc, before they're gone again. So opposing teams attempting to coordinate alpha strikes are forced to do so against the most difficult to kill targets. And when coordinated, the romulan DPS ships will kill a target before anyone has even noticed they have decloaked.

So why can't non-romulan escorts do the same thing with such great effect? They don't have Singularity Jump. This is what makes the romulan ships so effective at this type of strategy: they get a burst of distance, a hold on any potential attackers, and (the best aspect of the ability) they vanish from anyone who might be watching them. It removes the weakness that klink ships and defiants in similar builds have: EPtE will only allow you to escape if the opponent doesn't stop you from leaving. The Singularity Jump ensures that you will leave effectively nearly ever time.

More and more, Romulan ships built this way are making the case that playing any other escort is a liability. I, for one, am not ready to throw in the towel yet (as an avid Fed escort player), but do admit that I can see the writing on the walls that, I may need to abandon my favorite ships and rep-grind a romulan tac if I want to give my team the best chance to win in PvP.

All hail our new romulan overlords?
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=93695767000&dateline=  1347284393
Lag Industries STO/TOR Guild
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 649
# 2
07-20-2013, 04:54 AM
There are ways to combat this, but it is difficult with teh UI set up for quicker heals. Can be done but steepens learning curve for new people.

I have repeatedly stated the Romulans are going to make a run at PvP with their battle cloak and coordination. Too many were upset with their low power, because they were wanting to fly rommies like a fed, non-cloaking ship. (most probably never played kdf before).

They can be defeated but they have elevated the required game play on other team. It does make premades exponentially more difficult to beat for pugs and amplifies the need for premade and pug queues, such as substantially higher rewards, but you have to have a team of 5 to Q for that mission.

Edit: This makes having science more important. If engies had more diverse powers than self hull heals, or the power drain limited battle cloak then they would have an increased role, as it stands now with their limited turn rate and the UI system, they will have to be Johnie on the spot healers with macros and such.
PvE Jem'Hadar motto: Participation Ribbons are life.
End the war with the KDF and FED, allow cross faction teams, as the queues permit.

Last edited by milanvorius; 07-20-2013 at 05:09 AM.
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 324
# 3
07-20-2013, 05:32 AM
I seen this coming a long time ago b4 the release of LoR while i was beta testing the Romulan faction, some people was trying to point out that the Romulan Warbird's Singularity powers is to make up for the Warbird's low power level's which i have argue at the time that any good player will go around that, as now we already seeing the result of those Frigate type Warbird's and sometimes a very good build Scimitar can kill people out of a cloak less than a few seconds if not cripple them badly just to be finished off moments later.

One of the main reasons that Romulan charaters can do alot of damage is basically their BOff's space traits which gives them a huge advantage over Fed and KDF characters which have BOff's with useless space traits that have no combat purpose, for an example my Romulan toon have 5 boff's with each having a Superior Operative trait and a Subterfuge one as well (2 space traits in 1 boff), My Rommie toon have 20% crit, 95% crit sev, can go back to cloak less than 10 sec after decloak and also my Starship Stealth rating is over 700 points even though Starship Stealth rate from Subterfuge does not suppose to stack, while on the other hand my KDF main have only 12% crit, 70% crit sec, can go back to in 17 sec after decloak... this is all having the same consoles and tech with both characters.

In all i think the KDF and Feds needs a new Gerneration of indigenous BOff's with their own combat space traits that can atleast compete with the Romulan ones, tho u can go to the Romulan Embassy for their BOff's but it will still nowhere as good as the Romulan faction ones which the Embassy BOff's have only 1 space trait each and the Superior Operative trait is only limited to Tactical BOff's.

I think the dev's should kill off the reduce 10%-15% CD time on the recloak on the Superior Operative trait on BOff's or atleast don't make it stack.

there's still alot of issues that have to be address...

Last edited by oakland4life; 07-20-2013 at 05:37 AM.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 649
# 4
07-20-2013, 06:01 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by oakland4life View Post
I seen this coming a long time ago b4 the release of LoR while i was beta testing the Romulan faction, some people was trying to point out that the Romulan Warbird's Singularity powers is to make up for the Warbird's low power level's which i have argue at the time that any good player will go around that, as now we already seeing the result of those Frigate type Warbird's and sometimes a very good build Scimitar can kill people out of a cloak less than a few seconds if not cripple them badly just to be finished off moments later.

One of the main reasons that Romulan charaters can do alot of damage is basically their BOff's space traits which gives them a huge advantage over Fed and KDF characters which have BOff's with useless space traits that have no combat purpose, for an example my Romulan toon have 5 boff's with each having a Superior Operative trait and a Subterfuge one as well (2 space traits in 1 boff), My Rommie toon have 20% crit, 95% crit sev, can go back to cloak less than 10 sec after decloak and also my Starship Stealth rating is over 700 points even though Starship Stealth rate from Subterfuge does not suppose to stack, while on the other hand my KDF main have only 12% crit, 70% crit sec, can go back to in 17 sec after decloak... this is all having the same consoles and tech with both characters.

In all i think the KDF and Feds needs a new Gerneration of indigenous BOff's with their own combat space traits that can atleast compete with the Romulan ones, tho u can go to the Romulan Embassy for their BOff's but it will still nowhere as good as the Romulan faction ones which the Embassy BOff's have only 1 space trait each and the Superior Operative trait is only limited to Tactical BOff's.

I think the dev's should kill off the reduce 10%-15% CD time on the recloak on the Superior Operative trait on BOff's or atleast don't make it stack.

there's still alot of issues that have to be address...
Is the stack intended or is it waiting for a correction?
PvE Jem'Hadar motto: Participation Ribbons are life.
End the war with the KDF and FED, allow cross faction teams, as the queues permit.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 761
# 5
07-20-2013, 06:21 AM
i really hope they'll bring rommies on par with the other factions by when they milked enough out of them.
a start could be: simply remove that jump-ability from sing-bar (and give em a + in powerlevels before anyone can whine).

Klink: House of Beautiful - J'Luc, "I.K.S. ET'T'PRS" / Rommie: Lag Industries - D'Waste, "U.S.S. WASTEJUTSU"
Join Date Hoster: Dec 2011 - Join Date Symbiont: 1403 A.D. and not a dull moment
PLZ ADD MARKS-TO-CHOOSE PACKS AND AFK/LEAVER PENALTY TO PVP PUBLIC QUES (not privates!)
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 822
# 6
07-20-2013, 06:41 AM
Take a look at the Fleet Mogai - It's basically a fleet patrol escort with the shields of a fleet excelsior/assault cruiser, a battlecloak and singularity powers. Power levels were never a problem by VA.

Also lots of free (FREE) boffs with good to excellent space traits. I've got both a science officer and engineer with the superior operative trait, something which you can't get from the embassy. And I got them for free. My Romulan, with no dilithium spent or rep powers or equipment, had a higher crit chance and severity than my fully leveled and geared up fed alt.

The imbalance is so obvious I've dropped my feds with their temporal destroyers and made the Romulan my main.
Previously Alendiak
Daizen - Lvl 50 Engineer - Fleet Avenger
Selia - Lvl 50 Tactical - Fleet Avenger
Toval - Lvl 50 Tactical - Fleet Mogai
Captain
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 591
# 7
07-20-2013, 07:10 AM
Yet people still cry the bugship is OP.
Been up against a Tvaro?
Same speed, just as powerful with weapons, slightly weaker with boffs but that doesnt matter when the damn thing can run and cloak every 9 seconds, with the rom Boffs and Doffs its near impossible to lock onto, let alone hit.
Bugship OP my a55, Tvaro is very close to being a bugship but with a battle cloak and singularity powers. That destabilised torpedo is a joke as well.

Scimitar whilst being a good ship in itself, its the pets, pooping out pets that do nothing but scramble sensors! Scramble after scramble after scramble.
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 324
# 8
07-20-2013, 07:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by milanvorius View Post
Is the stack intended or is it waiting for a correction?
At this point it's up to the dev's to decide...

I just know from experience in pvp... i build my Sci toon ship with 250 Starship Sensor rating which many of that came from sci sensor probe consoles, When i tag a Romulan Warbird (with Max Stealth) with sensor scan b4 it cloaks, and while he/she cloaks with my sensor scan still on it i won't be able to detect unless i'm within 2-4 km away from their ship and that's with my Aux power level at 110... too bad there's no BOff's with a 150 Sensor skill rating, but that would be as cheap as the Romulan BOff with a Stealth rating from subterfuge from their BOff they already have.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,208
# 9
07-20-2013, 08:58 AM
Tend to agree with OP.

Can't understand how one faction could be given such a huge advantage over the others.

As a KDF player I used to bemoan the disparity between the Feds and KDF.

Hate to say it but in my opinion KDF has been marginalized the worse out of all this.

It's pretty much a PvE faction now.

Whatever "edge" it "might" have had is gone.

Every justification used for why KDF ship designs were so weak, the Romulans have surpassed that benchmark and are better in every way, with no downside whatsoever.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 734
# 10
07-20-2013, 09:14 AM
Don't forget that Romulan Escorts can also use the Valdore console.

Quote:
Originally Posted by drkfrontiers View Post
the Romulans have surpassed that benchmark and are better in every way, with no downside whatsoever.
The Romulans have the -40 power "disadvantage" built in as the counter to their obvious advantages (Battle Cloak, Singularity abilities, etc)... except for that engineered flaw is oh, SO easily overridden thanks to things like Leech, +Power cores, etc etc
The first we heard of getting new PvP maps "soon" was in August of 2010. We're consistently told something will be coming with the "next" update. Absolutely nothing has come to PvP since launch.

I think it's finally time Cryptic stopped stringing us along, don't you?
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