Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,400
# 101
07-18-2013, 06:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by doffingcomrade View Post
That seems less like a testimonal of success and more an admission of failure, to me. His "not quite a team" got destroyed. Clearly he needs to be more organized.

Well it's clear you have a defeatist mindset, refuse to try and are deadset on your current course.

I'd wish you luck but since you're not going to PvP anymore, I guess it wouldn't have any meaning.


Last edited by ussultimatum; 07-18-2013 at 06:17 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 14,573
# 102
07-18-2013, 06:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ivantomdisplay View Post
Yeah, Ker'rat is fun now more then ever, since arena these days is all about pug stomp or pug stomped, nukara mines and sci premades. I might say, tnx god for Ker'rat! And ill quote TFOmega: "god, I love Ker'rat" I noticed, there are new players I haven't seen before, hows doing pretty well, especially two escort players from some German fleet. They got the point. They stick together and coordinate attacks. Icing on the cake is, of course, exploding mr. Romulan Star Dagger, ^^, who can even find a way to take credits even for his own death, along with Mr. Sal's "evul" reference. That place is unique.
So, maybe a tip, find yourself a wingman, preferably sci escort, Team of Tac and sci escort is perfect combination for that map.
When u see Zelda and me, we are prolly teamed. Also, every 3rd or 4th kdf is wearing HoBo tag, which cannot be accounted as a premade, and they are certainly not premade, not even teamed, i may say. Loose nature of Ker'rat denies every purpose of premade team, so when u see Yoda and his 4-5 sci biatches they arent premade they called a reinforcements I just can't imagine someone is coordinating attacks in Ker'rat via teamspeak.
There is quite a bit that Ker'rat has going for itself over other PvP endeavors in the game.

Have wondered from time to time, if something along those lines - wouldn't work its way into the talk about the mix of Competitive PvE and PvP with some fighting over Neutral Zone systems... systems where folks could go, enter the PvP instance or the Fed/KDF PvE instance - fight for rewards, whatever - system changes, contribution based rewards, etc, etc, etc - add something...but that's kind of neither here nor there regarding what I wanted to say mostly in reply...

"So, maybe a tip, find yourself a wingman, preferably sci escort, Team of Tac and sci escort is perfect combination for that map."

Yep, I love to tag along with my Sci Hegh'ta or Sci T'varo with a Tac in a BoP or just a Tac in general. I've mentioned tandems here and there, wondering why folks don't talk about tandems more.

My most memorable (okay, second most - the most was a suicide with the Burning Beachball) death was to a Tac/Sci tandem flying Krenn & Korath. It was an epic death...thus one of the reasons that I consider it my most memorable death. Heck, it's one of the few deaths I remember - it was just that awesome. But yeah, I think tandems are overlooked for a lot of folks. There are some great synergies that can be created between two folks...
Captain
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 2,199
# 103
07-18-2013, 09:07 PM
Why can't they put in a mechanic where pugging IS pugging - ie - no made up teams

If you Q for a pug it should not allow any pre-made - like someone said: if you want to do a premade match go to the OPvP and set it up.

From now on I will warp out on any pug with a pre-made and i think everyone else should as well intil they change it - these premade rolling pug players is only leading to PvP full demise.
Captain
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 3,158
# 104
07-18-2013, 09:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ussultimatum View Post
Well it's clear you have a defeatist mindset, refuse to try and are deadset on your current course.

I'd wish you luck but since you're not going to PvP anymore, I guess it wouldn't have any meaning.
Ehhwot? I never said that. I'm still working on it. I'm just saying that the requirements are pretty steep for people who can't afford to spend months or even years working to solve them, and this may sort of limit the audience-base.
Captain
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 3,158
# 105
07-18-2013, 09:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by newromulan1 View Post
Why can't they put in a mechanic where pugging IS pugging - ie - no made up teams
Because this is deeply and fundamentally implausible? I mean, how would this even work? Even if there was no "queue team" option, you'd still get people who are a functional unit thus queuing together at once. There is no technical solution that would stop players from working together in a team environment, and it is unclear why this would necessarily result in a desirable outcome for a team game.

Quote:
Originally Posted by newromulan1 View Post
From now on I will warp out on any pug with a pre-made and i think everyone else should as well intil they change it - these premade rolling pug players is only leading to PvP full demise.
Well, the problem is that you're attempting to join a team game...without a team. You're trying to attend a gunfight without a gun. Of course you get rolled. You need a TEAM. One that isn't exactly easy to arrange and train. It's not that PvP is bad: It's that it's very difficult to meet the actual prerequisites needed to succeed.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 14,573
# 106
07-18-2013, 10:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by doffingcomrade View Post
Well, the problem is that you're attempting to join a team game...without a team.
That's not really the case, though. It's not a case that Joe Pugsly joins the queue by himself and ends up facing a team of five that happened to put their team together beforehand.

Joe Pugsly joins the queue by himself, as does Jane Pugmore, Tony Pugaloni, Basil Pugsworth, and Viktor Puglovski. The queue forms them into a team. They're not joining a team game without a team - they're joining the queue, to have their team formed, to join that team game.

Thus, some would say - the problem is that some people are attempting to get around the system putting them into teams by joining as a team already...
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,628
# 107
07-18-2013, 10:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by doffingcomrade View Post
You're trying to attend a gunfight without a gun.
More like its like 5 people that paintball on the weekend meet online and go fight a SAS team ... they have a gun alright but they arent going to beat the SAS team.
Former Star Trek Online Player
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,400
# 108
07-18-2013, 10:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by virusdancer View Post
Thus, some would say - the problem is that some people are attempting to get around the system putting them into teams by joining as a team already...
The option to "join team" means that it is very specifically within the limits of what the system allows.

There is no "getting around the system" going on here.

Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 14,573
# 109
07-18-2013, 10:35 PM
I'm going to quote something Bort said in another thread - which - basically takes it out of context, of course. This was said recently regarding some of pet AI stuff that's going on...

Quote:
Originally Posted by borticuscryptic View Post
That's not really the whole issue.

Is it hard to program AI to do this? You betcha. Possibly difficult enough that the time that'd be required just simply isn't available.

But there's also the rabbit hole... The can of worms... the setting of unreasonable expectations, and the question of whether to fulfill them.

And by that I mean this: Say we were to take the time to improve the behavior of a specific pet, like BOP Raiders. What's to say that players will be happy if we stop there?

What about Jem'hadar Attack Ship Pets? Maybe they want better control over their Ramming Speed?
What about Runabouts? Maybe they should use their Tractor Beam more aggressively on faster targets?
What about Ferjai Frigates? Maybe they should only lay mines when their target is very nearby, and has high health (to ensure that the mines will actually hit the intended target)?

The list goes on and on. And the simple truth is that we cannot afford to spend our development budget tuning features like this, when we have design matters to deal with that have a more profound effect on the future life of the game on a whole. We do what we can.
Why am I quoting that? He hasn't said that about this particular topic...but he shouldn't have to say it. He shouldn't have had to say it in the thread he did.

So players want the queues split into PUG/Teams...

"What's to say that players will be happy if we stop there?"

...and yes, that list will go on and on. How much of their development time would they end up spending - being nickel and dimed - dealing with every little change we wanted to the queues, eh?

Yeah, I know it's hypocritical given my current signature - lol - but that doesn't change that they do not have infinite resources, infinite time, infinite money, infinite developers, etc, etc, etc - to deal with those lists of things we bombard them with every day - day in and day out.

Face it, how much of this problem could simply be handled by player attitude, eh?

If certain folks would stop telling the PUG folks that they're doing it wrong - they wouldn't feel the need to defend themselves - those arguments would be avoided. Different people like different things, both sides need to grow up and accept that.

If certain of the Premades would stop patting themselves on the back for pugstomping - then many of the folks losing would take the loss, reflect on the loss, see what they might do better and learn from it...rather than get distracted by arguing.

If certain of the Premades would stop abusing truckloads of what many consider cheese while pugstomping - then again, many of those folks would take the loss and learn from it. That's not a case of saying the Premade should not play to win. They should play to win - but what would they have really won by doing it with all the cheese?

That looks like a lot of finger pointing at the certain folks and certain Premade groups out there - yep, and why not? Without A, there wouldn't have been B...

No doubt, without a doubt in the least - there will still be folks that complain regardless - they will make excuses regardless, etc, etc, etc. 'eff 'em...'eff 'em. Make fun of them - them, specifically - not the group as a whole. Hell, just like what often happens in Ker'rat - folks on the same side of some of the folks whining will jump in and rag them as well.

But with a change in player attitude - at least the community can grow, no? Sure, Cryptic might end up doing everything in their power to destroy it - but at least when everybody gives them the finger, it can be done honestly...

That's the question to ask yourself - do you want it to grow? Or are you just so miserable over everything that's taken place over the years and what continues to happen, that deep down you just want the whole thing to go down in flames? I mean, I can see that... I've been there with other games. Hell, I've been there with this game.

I like Star Trek though. I like starship pew pew. So yeah...I want it to grow.
Captain
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 2,199
# 110
07-18-2013, 10:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ussultimatum View Post
The option to "join team" means that it is very specifically within the limits of what the system allows.

There is no "getting around the system" going on here.
yeah and the system needs to be changed - so no-one joined in a team can Q for pug matches

the "i want to do it with friends excuse is pure BS - they want to do it so they can roll pug players over for giggles - sorry tat's a BAD system that people are taking advantage of and it is ruining PvP - scaring any new players away.

if you want a pre-made group - get a organized thing going - not a pug.

This is one thing Cryptic needs to change ASAP
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