Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 40
# 21
07-17-2013, 09:01 AM

Last edited by highlet; 07-17-2013 at 09:07 AM.
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 16,259
# 22
07-17-2013, 09:17 AM
Merge the queues (FvF, KvK, FvK -> RvB), split the queues (PUG, Teams).
...imagine something amusing here...
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 463
# 23
07-17-2013, 09:19 AM
I understand perfectly where the OP and others are coming from, but I don't think 5 buddies/fleetmates should be prohibited from joining the queues together and the system should definitely not force them to play on different teams.

Public PvP queues, like any other type of public queue, work like this:

Whether it's ground or space, sometimes you just get bad luck and end up in the queues while there's a really good team or a pugmade that gels well there, and they win and pretty conclusively. Sometimes you queue and you get 5 ok players V 5 ok players, sometimes you get 5 ok players V 5 terrible players (or at least a terrible team), sometimes you get 5 decent players V 2 extra good and 3 terrible players. Sometimes you get spam insanity, sometimes no-one is even using mines, sometimes you get 3 afkers and someone has to volunteer to sit out, sometimes you get 2 afkers on the same team and no-one notices for the first 3 or 4 kills. Sometimes you get 10 of the same thing in a row, sometimes it changes from match to match.

Sure, some of those are more annoying or less fun than others, but I have to admit I kinda like the randomness of it all. It's certainly better than knowing that first we hit the tac cube, then there's a popup, I either take the probes or I take out two of these, then a cube appears, then if I pop buff x, y and z with debuff a, and fire this.... (you all know how the story ends). I think it's also generally true to say that 5 very good players will always look like a premade against 5 not very good players, just like 1 or 2 very good players can carry 3 or 4 very bad ones through an stf. So sometimes, it might look like a pre/pugmade, when actually it's just a coincidence - although 10 matches in a row would be pushing 'coincidence' to it's outer limits, I'll give you that.

Not sure if a 'Really-quite-good-actually/Not-so-good-at PvP' type queue system (basically Elite/Normal) would work though, as not only are there are many players who have an unjustified sense of their own awesomeness (that is a general comment and is NOT directed at anyone in particular), but there are also probably going to be groups out there who actually enjoy pug stomping.....

Something could be done, but not sure what. I still enjoy PvP even when my team is roflstomped and if there is good synergy/teamwork on the part of the opposing team, or I have been impressed by a particular player, I say so. I ain't all that anyway and being good at PvP is not an easy thing to accomplish.

I do empathize with the OP though, as being dead before or shortly after you fire off your first buff is not a good learning environment. It's also not very good for those who want something a bit different from the mindnumbing-gameleavingly easy/boring PvE content, but who don't necessarily want to or have the time to 'learn2play' and become PvP experts. That said, there is nothing to stop people from sending a tell after a match and asking for advice. The worst that will happen is that they refuse, and if they're not nice about it, you can always add them to your ignore list.

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Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 596
# 24
07-17-2013, 09:19 AM
I like pvp how it is, I guess I had my time learning on kdf side when you get stomped in fed side. however I like grinding more than pvp so I don't do that so often, but yeah pvp is fine how it is for me, fight fire with fire.
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Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,329
# 25
07-17-2013, 09:32 AM
Originally Posted by v1ctor1st View Post
Ya know... i used to have fun in PVP.

I really did. Then the folks who came back to the game via LoR who used to pvp have decided to stop pvp'ing because its nothing more than a massive bad joke.

Just had TEN arena matches in a row... TEN. The pugs i was in faced off against teams with healers, teams with bug ships, teams with healers AND bug ships. All the way through those ten matches about half of the folks said that was their last pvp match, as far as they are concerned cryptic can remove pvp entirely.

...and now im one of them. There is no point to joining those arena queues anymore. No point at all. The fresh blood which came in with LoR has mostly been scared away with premades, instawin lockbox ships and spam.

Ohhhhh...and please spare me the rhetoric of "well folks should make their own premades with friends!" or "folks should join the opvp channel"

Most of the folks in those pug matches i came across was fleetless casual players which is this games LIFE BLOOD. Scare of that type of gamer from PVP and you'll kill off any chance of new folks getting into the arenas.

As for the OPVP channel... yeah join it, ya get good build tips there at least.

Well done premades, p2w console and lockbox kiddies, way to go to start the process of driving that final big effing nail into the coffin on PVP. I played my last arena/cnh match today, im never going back in.

Cryptic, just remove pvp and get it over with.
IMHO PvP has been a horrible joke for a long time in STO and I am not even talking LOLGround.

I still do it for the Lawls and to enjoy the OPNess of some ships but yeah... I cannot blame anyone for saying NO to our current PvP environment.
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 634
# 26
07-17-2013, 09:45 AM
I see the OPs point of view.

I'm rapidly going off PvP right now (and the game for that matter).
The reason is really down to cryptic but partly down to the players.
The old addage goes 'Ignoring a crime is just as bad as committing it'.

Its so bad that even the group I used to join have all but given up now.
That is how bad its getting with cheese, spam and P2W 'I win' consoles.
He with the biggest wallet wins.

Before people start flaming (which has already started anyway), FEDs, take away your p2w consoles, ships and broken doffs then try it, even better, go in as a pug in that format.
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 5,058
# 27
07-17-2013, 09:47 AM
There are three basic PVP modes that I see working here

Open Warfare Zones -- These are in-RP combat zones. You should be able to enter from sector space, or select an instance and join in. If you have a team that's awesome, if you are solo that's awesome, its just red vs blue anyway so whatever. Ker'rat is close to this, except it breaks the RP part (Fed and KDF vs Borg), and the PVE loot drops make it a sucker zone. Delete Ker'rat, move the combat to contested starbases in the neutral zones, and turn off loot drops.

Objective-based Zones -- This covers objective-based combat modes like Arena, Capture the Flag, Free-for-All, etc. You join a queue, get assigned to a team randomly (in FFA this is a one-man team), and you fight the opposing team(s) in pursuit of the objective(s). The purpose of these maps is to scratch an immediate-gratification itch or to grind for some kind of points. Objective-based gaming is out-of-roleplay by definition, therefore faction alignment is irrelevant. No NPCs on these maps.

Challenge Matches -- Any of the objective-based zones should also be available for use as private challenge matches. This allows for 1v1 combat, fleet warfare, ladders, and so forth.

There are a lot of balance problems that have to be sorted out too, but this would address most of the basic gameplay problems. The game has the mechanics in place for most of this already, and it really just needs some restructuring and reordering.
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 16,259
# 28
07-17-2013, 10:00 AM
Originally Posted by virusdancer View Post
Merge the queues (FvF, KvK, FvK -> RvB), split the queues (PUG, Teams).
VD, you're an idiot. You better not report me for calling you an idiot either. I'll know.

Ahem, no - I didn't have a psychotic breakdown - I'm just trying to make myself laugh a little. It didn't work though...meh.

In all seriousness, though - my suggestion there is pretty much fail. It might curb the issue, but it won't prevent the issue. This isn't the first game to face the issue nor will it be the last to face the issue.

Say they merge the queues and split the queues...fixed, right? Like I said, nope.

...on teamspeak/whatever voice server...

"Okay, guys...3...2...1...queue!"

That tends to be the foil of most split queue systems...synchronized queuing.

The smaller the pool of players, the easier it is to game that system. STO doesn't have that large a pool of PvP players.

Otherwise, they could attempt to overqueue the system - taking 20-30+ folks in, randomizing it, and then dropping out the teams. STO just doesn't have that many folks participating.

So a merge/split would be rather pointless...

...and speaking of pointless, I'm not sure any of it matters with the ARC garbage that's coming.
...imagine something amusing here...
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 463
# 29
07-17-2013, 10:04 AM
Originally Posted by virusdancer View Post
...and speaking of pointless, I'm not sure any of it matters with the ARC garbage that's coming.
Hmm... Arc? You mean this? - Link

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Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 16,259
# 30
07-17-2013, 10:14 AM
Originally Posted by carasucia83 View Post
Hmm... Arc? You mean this? - Link
That's one of the threads discussing it, aye...
...imagine something amusing here...

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