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Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 409
# 11
07-18-2013, 03:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by borticuscryptic View Post
This was specifically aimed at hangar pets. I'll take a look at the Aquarius (and the Bortas' BOP launch) and see if it needs similar treatment.
While you're looking at the Aquarius, could you look into putting it on a diet, I swear it balloons up 5x when it leaves the dock... (also the playable model is way too big as well...)

Thanks!
Formerly known as Protector from June 2008 to June 20, 2012

If the KDF can get a Fleet D7, the Feds should have a Fleet Exeter.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,665
# 12
07-18-2013, 03:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by borticuscryptic View Post
I recently checked in an AI update that should help this situation for all cannon-using hangar pets.

It turns out that the AI Weight (a value which helps AI to determine which powers/items to activate) were set incorrectly at very low values on all Fekihri Fighters and Frigates, so they were not performing even as well as BoP pets and Peregrine Fighters. The aforementioned AI update should have a more profound impact on these pets, than on others.

Assigning an AI routine for these pets to follow is not as simple as "do a strafing run" or "fly in figure eights past the target" or anything similar. We have to set up conditional statements for these pets to follow under every single conceivable circumstance. Your requests to send these pets extremely specific positioning commands, in 3D space combat, is almost laughably far into the "easier said than done" category of suggestions. Instead, we have to settle for encouraging the AI to follow certain behaviors in certain categories of situations.

It might be best to think of AI as strong suggestions, not guaranteed commands.
Some issues like them getting the most out of those cloaks would be beneficial since when you launch them they are not cloaked and then to attack and then recloak after certain amount of time to redo these strafing runs or figure 8's.

Another issue is those skull fighters I hope they are truely better than they are now because they virtually weren't even worth the Dilithium same with the slavers as I did get e lite slavers but like the advanced ones when I play I'm figuring there is some kind of hard cap involved since I do contraband farming with the character that uses the elite slaver that because of the doffing that its never looting anything. So the ability to loot shouldn't be hard capped if that is the case because in this game the slavers could be viewed as an "investment" to continue to get more than what we are getting thus far.

Last issue is the warp core explosion only thing I could suggest that pets have evasive but just a pet version when warp core is detected or if that is not possible than have it where a certain hull percentage makes it where if say a target has 5% hull health that it will turn away from the target when it gets a certain distance from it. The evasive would be easier to kick in when its very low on health but either of these suggestions would on paper/or in theory work to prevent those explosions.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 137
# 13
07-18-2013, 03:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by borticuscryptic View Post
I recently checked in an AI update that should help this situation for all cannon-using hangar pets.

It turns out that the AI Weight (a value which helps AI to determine which powers/items to activate) were set incorrectly at very low values on all Fekihri Fighters and Frigates, so they were not performing even as well as BoP pets and Peregrine Fighters. The aforementioned AI update should have a more profound impact on these pets, than on others.

Assigning an AI routine for these pets to follow is not as simple as "do a strafing run" or "fly in figure eights past the target" or anything similar. We have to set up conditional statements for these pets to follow under every single conceivable circumstance. Your requests to send these pets extremely specific positioning commands, in 3D space combat, is almost laughably far into the "easier said than done" category of suggestions. Instead, we have to settle for encouraging the AI to follow certain behaviors in certain categories of situations.

It might be best to think of AI as strong suggestions, not guaranteed commands.
Sounds extremely cool and thoughtful of you to do this. I can't wait to see the results!
[/SIGPIC][SIGPIC]
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,766
# 14
07-18-2013, 03:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by borticuscryptic View Post
I recently checked in an AI update that should help this situation for all cannon-using hangar pets.

It turns out that the AI Weight (a value which helps AI to determine which powers/items to activate) were set incorrectly at very low values on all Fekihri Fighters and Frigates, so they were not performing even as well as BoP pets and Peregrine Fighters. The aforementioned AI update should have a more profound impact on these pets, than on others.

Assigning an AI routine for these pets to follow is not as simple as "do a strafing run" or "fly in figure eights past the target" or anything similar...
I am sad to hear that giving commands as direct as strafing run/figure eight is too hard, especially with your comments that make it seem like BoP AI is ok. I only used Fekihri pets for a short time and found them lacking (the above probably explains why). I like the BoPs better, but it's still maddeningly sad to see them spending most of their lives circling large targets (like the CE) pinging away with their turrets.

It's going to be sadder still once I can't refresh them and have them launch, now facing their target, and get some front-end action happening again (until they get close and start circling).


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Lieutenant
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 61
# 15
07-18-2013, 04:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by borticuscryptic View Post
It turns out that the AI Weight (a value which helps AI to determine which powers/items to activate) were set incorrectly at very low values on all Fekihri Fighters and Frigates, so they were not performing even as well as BoP pets and Peregrine Fighters. The aforementioned AI update should have a more profound impact on these pets, than on others.
Thanks for taking a look at this and I will be testing the tweaked AI on tribble later and see if there's a notable difference which I hope.

Interesting about the low values for the Fekhiri ships, that would explain the result when a friend and I did some pet PVP a while ago and his BoPs crushed my Fer'Jai in every test we did 4-0.
Cryptic Studios Team
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,150
# 16
07-18-2013, 04:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lordhavelock View Post
I am sad to hear that giving commands as direct as strafing run/figure eight is too hard...
That's not really the whole issue.

Is it hard to program AI to do this? You betcha. Possibly difficult enough that the time that'd be required just simply isn't available.

But there's also the rabbit hole... The can of worms... the setting of unreasonable expectations, and the question of whether to fulfill them.

And by that I mean this: Say we were to take the time to improve the behavior of a specific pet, like BOP Raiders. What's to say that players will be happy if we stop there?

What about Jem'hadar Attack Ship Pets? Maybe they want better control over their Ramming Speed?
What about Runabouts? Maybe they should use their Tractor Beam more aggressively on faster targets?
What about Ferjai Frigates? Maybe they should only lay mines when their target is very nearby, and has high health (to ensure that the mines will actually hit the intended target)?

The list goes on and on. And the simple truth is that we cannot afford to spend our development budget tuning features like this, when we have design matters to deal with that have a more profound effect on the future life of the game on a whole. We do what we can.
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Cryptic - Systems Design
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Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 405
# 17
07-18-2013, 05:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lordhavelock View Post
It's going to be sadder still once I can't refresh them and have them launch, now facing their target, and get some front-end action happening again (until they get close and start circling).

Can't you just recall them, and then relaunch them (once that's fixed)?
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,879
# 18
07-18-2013, 05:16 PM
Yeah, it's pretty pathetic to see BoPs worthlessly circle a target, plinking away at it. I'm told they used to make actual strafing runs, once upon a time, before an AI change to make them fly in formation with their carrier screwed that up. That's outside my experience, though.

There is definite room for improvement, especially with these changes intended to improve the longevity of carrier pets.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 4
# 19
07-18-2013, 07:11 PM
I was literally talking about this exact problem to a friend of mine about this morning; about how my Birds-of-Prey never seem to use their cannons, nor my Elite Scorpion Fighters on my Armitage. How they just turret and occasionally fire torpedoes.

Wouldn't it be easier if the they simply had the 360 degree weapon arcs that come with a lot of shuttle weapons or some such? Or give them all beams or something? (I apologize if this sounds really naive.)
Rihannsu
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 178
# 20
07-18-2013, 07:16 PM
borticuscryptic let me start out by saying I'm a big fan and I can contribute my long term playing of sto to you. Thanks to you with STOked podcast I was kept informed and interested in the game. Then the AI of the BoP was in a very bad state years ago you spent weeks trying version after version to finally get the BoP hanger pet working well.

I understand rebuilding AI is a slippery slope with the possibility of things never being good enough but some items in the game do need to worked on. I do want to try the BoP after you make the changes. But the current state of a Qaw'Dun is really sad with little use of the dual cannons and torps RoF taking between 40s to 60s is silly.

As I'm a hardcore carrier captain only a few of the pets are not working correctly IMO.

Here is my personal rank of issues starting at high priority to low.
1. BoP AI/use of cannons
2. (All pets)The nerf to torpedo rate of fire that was made around the time Romulan rep came in. 30s to 60s for a torp to fire is not acceptable.
3. Powers recharge rate
4. Ramming pet damage and vs vet system???? 5 star pet ramming .... now no stars

Beam weapons are truly the best weapons for pets as they are not subject to the limited arcs of fire. But cannons do work better on fighters than frigates as they have a better turn rate.

Again borticuscryptic thank you for your hard work and I know how it is to be the brunt of all the hate and complaints.

Again thanks for working on this.

PS: I want the "I <3 borticuscryptic" paint scheme for my Qaw'Duns
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