Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 21
01-24-2010, 06:43 PM
Wow..for all you "technical gurus" out there who say an application can't fry hardware. Explain how I have been using this PC and video card to run every other game out there for the past two years with no problem and I installed this game and the card went nuts?

Explain why so many other people are seeing the same thing happen after installing and running this game.

For the idiot who said an 8800GTX was a "cheap" card, two years ago it was top of the line and still out performs most of the newer high end POS cards out there. This card runs any game out on the market with no problems until STO.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 22
01-24-2010, 06:43 PM
/showfps 1

is the command to show fps properly anything else just makes it say 0.00000
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 23
01-24-2010, 06:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mothball View Post
The game doesn't make your GPU run on "infinate" FPS, it means that the game will run at what ever your GPU hardware will allow. No limit on FPS is standard in any game.

The problem is a defect in the GPU, and suprisingly the baking may work but it's a temporary fix and there are better ways to do it. It's called a reflow.
Infinite FPS is not standard in games, games such as WoW have an internal code limiting FPS to 300, very high but not infinite (yeah yeah another wow comparison, sadly it works, plus i don't know the limits in other games)

Quote:
Originally Posted by LordServo View Post
My 8800GTS fried in the exact same manner (red lines down the screen) after running the beta for about 5 hours on the first day and 5 hours on the 2nd day

Oh and you can go the launcher/options and paste "/maxfps 60" (no quotes) so you dont have to set it every time.
putting the /maxfps command in your advanced options in the launcher does not work, advanced command lines come in the form -command modifier sadly i do not know the command that would equate to the ingame /maxfps command, turning on vsync will limit FPS in most cases anyhow and that will stay on no matter how often the game is restarted. one of the other threads on this subject also has a dev posted advanced command that may help, as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bellatormonk View Post
Wow..for all you "technical gurus" out there who say an application can't fry hardware. Explain how I have been using this PC and video card to run every other game out there for the past two years with no problem and I installed this game and the card went nuts?

Explain why so many other people are seeing the same thing happen after installing and running this game.

For the idiot who said an 8800GTX was a "cheap" card, two years ago it was top of the line and still out performs most of the newer high end POS cards out there. This card runs any game out on the market with no problems until STO.
I am not saying it is "impossible" for software to fry hardware, it is however, improbable, mostly because hardware tends to have failsafes to prevent that (CPUs and Video cards both have temperature sensors and shut off if they get too high, or are supposed to). perhaps you have not seen this issue before because "every other game out there" is not identical, they all have different ways of using system resources.

STO puts a lot of strain on a system, that much is clear, but all cards have a breaking point, all it takes is a little bit beyond that point and "boom" card gone. more importantly that breaking point IS NOT STATIC, the older the card is the weaker it gets, and the less strain it can handle.

Computer parts age very quickly, and 2 years is a MASSIVE amount of time for a computer part, especially a video card. The average life span on a computer as a whole, for a normal user, is roughly 3 years. Gamers are not "normal users" at the best of times, we put a lot more stress on machines then the "average user" thus our machines age faster. more over, this increased strain is not constant, and thus the strain is more like flicking a lightswitch on and off over and over. (ie game on - strain high, game off - strain reduced, game on again - strain high again, flip a light on and off and on and off and it blows out faster then turning it on and leaving it on)

following this idea your 2 year old video card is ancient and ready to be retired (it is the equivilent of 4 years for a "normal user," as an estimate). it has led a very hard life, and been stressed heavily. sadly STO was more stress then it could handle and it "gave up the ghost." yes it sucks but it is not entirely STO's fault.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 24
01-24-2010, 08:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bellatormonk View Post
Wow..for all you "technical gurus" out there who say an application can't fry hardware. Explain how I have been using this PC and video card to run every other game out there for the past two years with no problem and I installed this game and the card went nuts?
Yeah... pretty much explained here.

Quote:
Explain why so many other people are seeing the same thing happen after installing and running this game.
They really aren't. There are thousands, if not tens of thousands of people playing this game, which means the number of people complaining about this problem are comparatively small. There are doubtless people who were playing games just fine with hardware that wasn't capable of running under full load, something that wasn't made obvious by games which only tax hardware to a limited extent to begin with (Crysis on full detail may not be able to be run quickly on some hardware, but it's still not bringing the CPU or GPU to anywhere near 100% load). Now these people are playing STO, which due to an admittedly unusual penchant to stress hardware extraordinarily, is bringing to light issues with peoples' computers because they're not capable of running at full load, for whatever reason.

Again, this is clearly a comparatively small group of people, and no matter what, software cannot do anything to hardware beyond max it out computationally, and it is NOT Cryptics fault if your hardware is not able to run when it's computationally maxed.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 25
01-24-2010, 09:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pocket_geek View Post
I know as well as everybody else you can't kill a video card by paying a game...but, with my Nvidia 9800GT I can play any game under the sun (crysis or whatnot) for as long as I want and it never gets above 90C and since it's rated at 100C that's ok. When I play STO it get up to about 120C after awhile and my pc dies, and this is with graphics turned down.

...I have no idea why.
STO makes use of a LOT of advanced stuff on GPUs. Most MMOs are mostly CPU based. STO is one of the very few that does most of it's work on the GPU, but no matter how much it puts on the gpu your GPU should NEVER go over 90c... and 120c approaches thermal shutdown.

No GPU, even under max load should really go over 60c if it is properly cooled and not OCed by the user. You problably have dirt, dust, hair in your gpu fan and heat sink and air paths. Your system may also not be getting enough airflow.

At temps like that, your card won't last long. It will shorten it's life.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 26
01-24-2010, 09:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TallBear
STO makes use of a LOT of advanced stuff on GPUs. Most MMOs are mostly CPU based. STO is one of the very few that does most of it's work on the GPU, but no matter how much it puts on the gpu your GPU should NEVER go over 90c... and 120c approaches thermal shutdown.

No GPU, even under max load should really go over 60c if it is properly cooled and not OCed by the user. You problably have dirt, dust, hair in your gpu fan and heat sink and air paths. Your system may also not be getting enough airflow.

At temps like that, your card won't last long. It will shorten it's life.
Oh yeah, I know. It's a OC'd 9800GT from the factory (BFG OC) and it's a single slot cooler design so for it 70C - 90C under load was normal. No dirt or anything in it, I cleaned it out the first time it overheated.

It just seems odd that STO is the only game the caused it to exhibit this issue. ...The last time it overheated it died, I'm waiting for am RMA# now.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 27
01-24-2010, 09:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bellatormonk View Post
Wow..for all you "technical gurus" out there who say an application can't fry hardware. Explain how I have been using this PC and video card to run every other game out there for the past two years with no problem and I installed this game and the card went nuts?

Explain why so many other people are seeing the same thing happen after installing and running this game.

For the idiot who said an 8800GTX was a "cheap" card, two years ago it was top of the line and still out performs most of the newer high end POS cards out there. This card runs any game out on the market with no problems until STO.
Easy. This game puts more demand on your GPU and system than anything that you have run before. That's not the game's fault. That's the fault that your machine can not properly cool itself while under 80-100% load while gaming.

Just go into your nvidia control panel and MANUALLY set your GPU fan to 100%. That should keep the temps in a decent range. If it doesn't, then your card and or case has a cooling issue.

8800 were the top of the line card, but they had a defect, many people who made them, didn't properly set up cooling on them, and many of them died after a year of running constantly hot because their fans were not ramping up at heat increased.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 28
01-24-2010, 09:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TallBear
Easy. This game puts more demand on your GPU and system than anything that you have run before. That's not the game's fault. That's the fault that your machine can not properly cool itself while under 80-100% load while gaming.

Just go into your nvidia control panel and MANUALLY set your GPU fan to 100%. That should keep the temps in a decent range. If it doesn't, then your card and or case has a cooling issue.

8800 were the top of the line card, but they had a defect, many people who made them, didn't properly set up cooling on them, and many of them died after a year of running constantly hot because their fans were not ramping up at heat increased.
I have/had Rivatuner running the duty cycle of the fan at 100%. I have already fixed the card by baking it. The point was no application/game has ever done this to my card until I ran STO and it crapped out the card in under 10 minutes of use.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 29
01-24-2010, 09:56 PM
My roommate sits behind me on a Dell Xps 720. A dual core system at 2.4GHz and a Nvidia GTS 250.

He runs the game at 2560x1600 with all settings maxxed except:

all shadows off
no AA, but AF 16
depth of field off
ambienent occlusion off

all the rest of the settings are maxxed..... and he gets about 40fps in space and 25-30 fps on the ground. He could havea LOT better fps if he ran in 1920x1200 but he refuses. He likes the high rez better at the cost of fps. His choice.

now... I've never heard his computer make much noise...

Since he got STO... I've heard this high pitch whine coming from his system. It's his GPU fan. I installed the nvidia software a few yrs ago on his machine when he bought it so it will always auto adjust the GPU fans.

Absolutely STO puts a load on his GPU than I've never seen any other mmo or game he has played

BUT his system does JUST what it should, incr the fan speeds... and his GPU never runs over 55c while in STO.

So... what's STO guilty of? Putting a HEAVY load on GPUs... is that an issue. ABSOLUTELY NOT.

It's up to the USER to either turn DOWN their game setting, clean their machine, or make sure their fans are auto adjusting to the temp. To be easier they can also just manually FIX the fan speeds before launching STO

Now, if I never installed that software, he would have played STO, his card would have over heated, and crashed his system (probably not killed it). One or two overheats shouldn't kill a card. ALL modern CPU and GPUs are programmed to shut off at a certain temp (although SOME will fail before that shutdown is reached because they are faulty). Keep in mind he has an "older" system although it does have Win 7 on it. My point was, back then Dell did NOTHING for fan management. Would it have been the game's fault if his fans never sped up because I didn't install that software? NOPE. DELLS FAULT for not putting proper fan control into the system.

Keep in mind the fan controls DO NOT come with the nvidia drivers!

TO ALL NVIDIA USERS (even if you don't have an nvidia mobo)... this is the software that will at LEAST help you regulate your GPU speed. Either manually or by telling it when the card is at xxx temp make the fan speed XXX %. For those that have an nvidia mobo, it will give you control of ALL your fans:

http://www.nvidia.com/object/nvidia_...ools_6.05.html
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 30
01-24-2010, 09:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bellatormonk View Post
I have/had Rivatuner running the duty cycle of the fan at 100%. I have already fixed the card by baking it. The point was no application/game has ever done this to my card until I ran STO and it crapped out the card in under 10 minutes of use.
Chances are is that your card was already near death.

I've had 3 8800s fail on me, 2 at random times and one right after I installed and played a game.

Also riva tuner does NOT put your GPU under FULL load. It just throws some equations at it to ramp the GPU up to 100% use. It does NOT simulate what an actual game load puts onthe card.
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 10:31 PM.