Career Officer
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 716
# 211
11-05-2013, 12:49 AM
Maybe a short comment regarding the balancing tool is in order:

It can only work when there is data for all players available.

If there are players without data, the algorithm will assume their values as zero and thus essentially balance a 4v5 or such. Obviously the missing player will then tip the scales and make the match unbalanced. So if you happen to encounter a situation where players don't have data, consider using the algorithm to balance a 4v4 (or 3v3) and then add the previously removed players to both sides.


Full disclosure: I am not a member of the TD channel, I only participate in matches that are advertised in OPVP or when I happen to be on Teamspeak when the matches are being started.
http://hilbertguide.com
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,925
# 212
11-05-2013, 01:00 AM
The Tool is just that a tool... and yes its only as good as the data that goes in.

It really is a great help, your work is very appreciated by almost everyone.

As you say its a great starting point... I feel its a good way to setup a warm up match. (and often the first match is very well balanced thanks to the tool). Still as I see it its the second match after a little hand tweaking that has the potential to be that epic 15 14 most people remember for awhile after the game.

What I love most about your tool Mancom... is it shows really how Cryptic could really fix the ques... and make PvP something most people will have fun doing right from the ques.

There is no reason why something like what you have created for us couldn't be implemented by Cryptic in the back end to Pretty much turn the ques into an automated TD game launcher.

It would be something semi unique in the MMO market... and I think it would be something other Devs would end up copying down the road. It would be cool to see Cryptic do something really innovative with STOs PvP. IMO the TD idea in combo with your work could be a STO defining feature if Cryptic spent a couple days making it happen.
When the messenger comes to appropriate your profits ... kill the messenger.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 520
# 213
11-05-2013, 01:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mancom View Post
Maybe a short comment regarding the balancing tool is in order:

It can only work when there is data for all players available.

If there are players without data, the algorithm will assume their values as zero and thus essentially balance a 4v5 or such. Obviously the missing player will then tip the scales and make the match unbalanced. So if you happen to encounter a situation where players don't have data, consider using the algorithm to balance a 4v4 (or 3v3) and then add the previously removed players to both sides.


Full disclosure: I am not a member of the TD channel, I only participate in matches that are advertised in OPVP or when I happen to be on Teamspeak when the matches are being started.
I will extend the same as others. The tool is super awesome. Those that ***** are bitches.

We had 6 matches tonight, all were fun. The guys playing got the link and everyone agreed to the team. I didn't hear one complaint.

It seems to me there are a few that have some issues with Pandas and TSI and have some ****ing issue that is retarded.

GJ doing something Cryptic hasn't managed in four f'n years.
-X-/Pandas - Pheo

Last edited by xtremenoob1; 11-05-2013 at 01:41 AM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 96
# 214
11-05-2013, 02:05 AM
I LOVE the td games. I know I can rely on every member of my team and it really takes communication to bring someone down. Sure the balancing isnt perfect but for the most part it works (sometimes too well and you get matches that will go on with no kills and we have to reshuffle haha) and I have really enjoys actually speaking to you fine gentleman vs just pugging it amd relying on text chat to call targets. The rules keep it fair and interesting. Thanks pandas for hosting the ts and keeping pvp alive.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 597
# 215
11-05-2013, 02:32 AM
General rules are no TIF, SS doffs, GPG but will depend on who the host is.

If it aint in the rule list, you can use it, but please don't QQ if what's not on the rule list kills you.
Now found frequenting MWO short term and then Star Citizen long term. Raged Quit PVP long ago
- Gohan (House of Beautiful /Sad Pandas)
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 359
# 216
11-05-2013, 02:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pulserazor View Post
Like I said, I didnt quit because i was outmatched, or outclassed, I quit the match because 3 spawns in a row it took me forever to get back into the action because I was swarmed by pets who locked me in combat 35 km away from the action, by the time I got there I was the prime target (as a known healer). I dont know how they managed to get me locked up with pets that far away, but it was annoying, and so I quit. I felt better abou tleaving the match then staying in a match and looking like the weakest player to myself when I looked at the score (btw I could care less what I look like to anyone else.) - The pets that were locking me up werent outright banned from the match, I assumed erroneously that they would not be included because I thought I was entering a match of high calibur players with dignity and class, the same class I exibited by submitting that I was a tif user. - Every single no bs tournament had them banned, so when I saw them used against me, especially in a way that made me completely useless 35 km away from the action before I even got to move from my spawn, yea - I was miffed enough to leave - I havent acually ever seen pets do that before. I may as well not have been in the match. I promise if I had stayed it would have been no different, my team probably would have lost even faster if I had stayed.
My personal opinion is, if I join a match I make a commitment to my team. Even if I am the weak link I stay and fight. I would see warping out as a betrayal on my part. Some fight might not be fun and the only reason I play is to have fun. But in that case I still stay because for me I think it os the right thing to do. Only rl reasons would trump that.

Also the rules of each match depend on the host. If something is not forbidden you should expect to see it. The problem is everyone in these forums has his own sense of right and wrong. There have been so many threads in the past about what is fair and what is not... so by now there are usually only very limited rules. And the host probably only bans what he considers to be the worst thing. You can still quit when the rules are announced or simply host your own game. Personally I am to lazy to host but I have no problem with the rules.

Also I might add, I have been in only two TD games so far. That is not nearly enough for any kind of statistics. But they were fun (and quite balanced). I might also add that I did not join the TS3 server. So while encouraged it is no requirement. I kind of hate people yelling. I never understood how people can get so upset about a simple game. No idea how most people usually behave in the TS and if I continue to play TD matches I will join eventually (and force the english of a native german speaker upon you, ha!).
In the end I still see TD games as casual. I will fight to the best of my ability and help my teammates as good as I can. But I won't get overly competitive.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pulserazor View Post
What I really should have done was said screw you guys and your BS elite interceptors, im just gonna use tif and evasive away so I can save my friends. I didnt. Cant have it back, and now you have someone new to hate on.
No. If it came down to that or leaving, leaving was the better option. Personally I would suggest just stay and fight, maybe ask in the chat if they could use different pets. And for the next game just ask to include that in the rules.
If you are really angry and frustrated people do impulsive things. I do not like people quitting my team but I suppose it is something I can understand and forgive if it happens occasionally. But to outright break the rules and throw something like TIF in the face would be more like, if I am not having fun you won't have any fun either. That would just be mean.



I am only a mediocre player. Maybe I was just lucky in the two matches, maybe you had a streak of bad luck. But you should not blame the pandas or hilberts system for it. Hilbert does a great job. His system is not perfect but no system really is. I don't really know you but if you like pvp maybe you should give TD another chance. Maybe ask for some more rules in a match. TD and hilberts system wont give you perfect balance. They wont eliminate all the cheese since there are almost no rules but they will do a better job of giving you a balanced match then the queues. And you won't run in a premade there.
My stomach is clear and my mind is full of bacon!
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 881
# 217
11-05-2013, 03:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mancom View Post
Maybe a short comment regarding the balancing tool is in order:

It can only work when there is data for all players available.

If there are players without data, the algorithm will assume their values as zero and thus essentially balance a 4v5 or such. Obviously the missing player will then tip the scales and make the match unbalanced. So if you happen to encounter a situation where players don't have data, consider using the algorithm to balance a 4v4 (or 3v3) and then add the previously removed players to both sides.
Perhaps if a player has no data the tool could just assign an average value? Seems like it would lead to better balance than assuming the player does not exist. You could also add some prefabs into the database such as "average healer" "average damage dealer" average cc" etc. that people could then plug in.
Behold, The Jorf Guide
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 205
# 218
11-05-2013, 06:33 AM
There is only one thing to say about warpers, get lost and never come back. I will praise the developers the day they implement a leaving penalty and afk penalty to PvP. (Ok excluding private 5v5s perhaps)

On another note, TD is awesome I just had my first match earlier today, its alot better then pugstomping or being stomped.

Keep at it!!
Read the book of the Rihannsu.

Last edited by mightylepton; 11-05-2013 at 06:35 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,354
# 219
11-05-2013, 07:18 AM
Lately been busy with exams and what not so not been able to organise TD matches during Euro timezones (early US).

As soon as the first batch of exams are over, expect more TD matches.

The days of pug stomping are numbered, numbered I tell you.
aka NazHuggyBear2

"No, there is no real problem with P2W in STO. Obviously, if you fight against someone with an equal level of skill in the game, better equipment will give you an edge. But usually, it is the skill level that determines the outcome, not the P2W." - Sprinkles
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 205
# 220
11-05-2013, 07:20 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by naz4 View Post
Lately been busy with exams and what not so not been able to organise TD matches during Euro timezones (early US).

As soon as the first batch of exams are over, expect more TD matches.

The days of pug stomping are numbered, numbered I tell you.
ty naz, looking forward to the next set up. Panda dominated td match with enforced panda rules haha.

j/k
Read the book of the Rihannsu.
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