Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 4,723
# 31
08-09-2013, 11:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by icepiraka View Post
So a ship by itself can't be inherently called P2W? And it's completely implausible that two people can't be friends and model their builds off each other (they were both Jem'hadar, both antiprotons, used similar abilities, had comparable maneuverability), and join games with eachother?
You are in a T'varo... pot meet kettle. There is no such thing as non p2w ships any longer. Well there are but no one flies Patrol Escorts, Star Cruisers, Hegh bops, and Negvars anymore.

Everyone uses similar abilities that is half decent in PvP....

Even if they are teamed up... 2 people are hardly a super threatening Premade... it would have been worse if you said it was a bug with his sci ship pocket healer.

In any event it was a 2v2 and you where out gunned... by at least a margin. It sounds to me like they won 15 -6-7 if I was guessing... hardly some lopsided blowout.
Dignity and an empty sack is worth the sack.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 16,311
# 32
08-09-2013, 11:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by antoniosalieri View Post
You are in a T'varo...
Not just a T'varo, but a Fleet T'varo. I'm still trying to figure out the squishy part.
Lieutenant
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 86
# 33
08-09-2013, 11:48 PM
*sigh* Let's try this again....

Quote:
The score quickly becomes 3 to 1 for the team with 3 players....
Yes, and that, to me, is not enough time for me to justify an imbalance in the 3v2 team. It could have just as easily gone the other way. Like I said before.

Quote:
In any event it was a 2v2 and you where out gunned... by at least a margin. It sounds to me like they won 15 -6-7 if I was guessing... hardly some lopsided blowout.
I can honestly say that a few of those kills were just me getting lucky crits with torps. Disregarding those, that brings the score down to 15-3,15-4ish. Seems lopsided to me.

Quote:
Then he comes here and posts that the dude that sat out to even the numbers is a bad sport ?
Yes. When you're playing a team game, it is your duty to help the team and play a balanced game, something he, to me, clearly did not do, though I now see that I and the rest of the PvP community have vastly differing definitions of "balance."

Quote:
You are in a T'varo... pot meet kettle.
I personally don't consider C-Store and fleet ships P2W, even though they are in a general sense. When I said P2W, I was referring to a sort of "Strong-P2W" (lockbox, lobi, and otherwise expensive ships).

Quote:
Not just a T'varo, but a Fleet T'varo. I'm still trying to figure out the squishy part.
EBC on all the time. No skill points in shield emitters and shield systems. No shield heal abilities. Heavy torpedoes with great self-damaging capacity. Now do you understand?
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 5,769
# 34
08-09-2013, 11:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by antoniosalieri View Post
You are in a T'varo... pot meet kettle. There is no such thing as non p2w ships any longer. Well there are but no one flies Patrol Escorts, Star Cruisers, Hegh bops, and Negvars anymore.
*softly pets Fleet Star Cruiser* Shh...it's ok. The ole Antonio didn't mean it.


Why are all of STO's EPs named 'Steve'?
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,521
# 35
08-10-2013, 12:04 AM
Yep, different sense of balance.

Most of us are of the opinion that we should balance out the numbers, then let the chips fall where they may where individual/team skill is concerned, and thus let the win go to whoever is more capable then. At least, that's the way it is in queues. Different premises for the argument - so different conclusions.

Quote:
I personally don't consider C-Store and fleet ships P2W, even though they are in a general sense. When I said P2W, I was referring to a sort of "Strong-P2W" (lockbox, lobi, and otherwise expensive ships).
P2W or OPness is an extremely contentious topic around here, and something which typically devolves into name-calling and mindless arguments.

Quote:
EBC on all the time. No skill points in shield emitters and shield systems. No shield heal abilities. Heavy torpedoes with great self-damaging capacity. Now do you understand?
Actually, that isn't squishy at all, as long as you have suitable hull-resist abilities and defense boosters. It's just a switch from shield-tanking to speed/hull-tanking. Constantly-cloaked T'Varos are incredibly difficult to kill in the absence of offensive science, which you did not face.

Quote:
Let others get grilled and assume their failure is on their lack of skill, experience, or knowledge in shipbuilding? Why do this?
No tough love or anything intended, but yes, losing with equal numbers is not an assumption - it really does indicate that you are less skilled, less experienced, less knowledgeable, less well-geared, or less prepared. Winning doesn't really matter - what matters is what we learn from each match, and dying is an important part of that.
Take it easy!

Ishmael@scurry5: A Nibbling Sci
"Squeak?"
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 341
# 36
08-10-2013, 12:06 AM
You don't win wars by giving up your advantage. You use everything and anything that will give you an edge over your opponent.

Why drag out a match when you can end it quickly, decisively and hope the teams are balanced the next time around?


Honestly, if you remove stacked and expensive Doffs, Elite Fleet Gear and assuming both teams are either premades or pugs, how much does skill truly fit into the equation?
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 16,311
# 37
08-10-2013, 12:22 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by icepiraka View Post
EBC on all the time. No skill points in shield emitters and shield systems. No shield heal abilities. Heavy torpedoes with great self-damaging capacity. Now do you understand?
Think about what you said there. EBC on all the time. Means your shields are down. What good would shield emitters, shield systems, or shield heals do anyway? I mean, c'mon...

...as for the self-damaging capacity that comes from the torps - I've had some awesome "Willard the Rat was killed." moments. But again, that's killing yourself - that's not somebody taking you out - that's not being squishy.
Lieutenant
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 86
# 38
08-10-2013, 12:49 AM
Quote:
No tough love or anything intended, but yes, losing with equal numbers is not an assumption - it really does indicate that you are less skilled, less experienced, less knowledgeable, less well-geared, or less prepared. Winning doesn't really matter - what matters is what we learn from each match, and dying is an important part of that.
Excellent point, I absolutely agree. But you do play because you want to have fun. Playing a game against challenging opponents is fun. Playing a game where it is a struggle to survive is not fun. I felt that the game I experienced was closer to the latter (especially the case for the poor Vor'cha), and that letting the rest of your team suffer because of your inactivity is, IMO, shameful. I mean, even if you do decide to observe, why not give constructive pointers instead of just sitting silently?

Quote:
Why drag out a match when you can end it quickly, decisively and hope the teams are balanced the next time around?
Depends on what you mean. If you're referring to having that one BoP that always hides and refuses to finish the fight, true that's not fun. If you mean having people intentionally sit out (or sit in, in this case) to create balance, well... why not? Honestly, I find the best matches are the longest ones, because they really strain your resolve and your knowledge of your ship. They're the best tests of your build, and they're the matches where you learn the most. Quick games may be amusing or fun for the winning side, but they are hardly constructive.

Quote:
Think about what you said there. EBC on all the time. Means your shields are down. What good would shield emitters, shield systems, or shield heals do anyway? I mean, c'mon...

...as for the self-damaging capacity that comes from the torps - I've had some awesome "Willard the Rat was killed." moments. But again, that's killing yourself - that's not somebody taking you out - that's not being squishy
I'm just saying, if I do lose cloak, the convenient backup of shields isn't exactly there as much (and it really is nice to have shields).

Also, you can self-inflict the DPT's -15% damage resistance. I consider that to be a self-induced squishiness.
Captain
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 16,311
# 39
08-10-2013, 01:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by icepiraka View Post
Also, you can self-inflict the DPT's -15% damage resistance. I consider that to be a self-induced squishiness.
It's -33 DRR not -15% DR. You can clear it as well.
Lieutenant
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 86
# 40
08-10-2013, 01:43 AM
Quote:
It's -33 DRR not -15% DR.
My mistake.

Quote:
You can clear it as well.
Apparently, not with hazard emitters. Sure it removes the DoT, but I still see the DPT debuff icon pop up, so I'm assuming the damage resistance reduction is not cleared, unless it's a UI bug.
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 06:14 PM.