Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,400
# 81
09-18-2013, 09:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mancom View Post
Regarding the "premades vs pugs": I think people are underestimating just how unbalanced pvp queue matches are in general. The average total kill count appears to be something like 18, which means 15-3.

And maybe I need to move to a relative-to-team scoring in combination with match weights, to better reward lost matches where one still was the best player in the losing team.

Have you given any thought to possibly setting up a specific leader-board that focuses solely on TD style matches?

You could run the leader-board you do now, but having a separate one for TD would likely give you some very different (and interesting) data.

Commander
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 292
# 82
09-18-2013, 10:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mancom View Post
Maybe it's time to reinstate the exponential dampening factor for low match counts. I initially removed this and replaced it by a hard cutoff for the daily/weekly/monthly lists because it leads to an odd and highly unintuitive disconnect between the average score and the individual match scores, but maybe it needs to go back in to give players an incentive to play lots of matches.

Regarding the "premades vs pugs": I think people are underestimating just how unbalanced pvp queue matches are in general. The average total kill count appears to be something like 18, which means 15-3.

And maybe I need to move to a relative-to-team scoring in combination with match weights, to better reward lost matches where one still was the best player in the losing team.
The relative-to-team scoring idea sounds good. The exponential dampening factor also sounds like it could be a good thing...
Thanks for your continued work on this. And wow, it's just nice to have someone that listens to, and responds to feedback in such an intelligent manner. CRYPTIC HIRE THIS MAN OR GIVE HIM SOME MONIES!
Commander
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 292
# 83
09-25-2013, 10:36 AM
Bump. Hilbert any news, updates or changes?
Career Officer
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 793
# 84
09-25-2013, 10:48 AM
I have toyed with different rating algorithms, and some seem to give a better ordering of the players within a team, but I don't like the resulting average result list better than the current one, so I haven't changed the rating yet.

The core problems for a good rating system are the following:

1) You can perform really well, but still score very few points when facing a superior opponent. That makes it difficult to say how big the impact of the kill score should be. (Only using dps favours ineffective faw beamboats, not the more efficient buils that score points with comparatively low damage.)

2) Dedicated healers always perform best-in-team in healing. This is therefore not a reliable metric for healing. And absolute values vary depending on the amount and type of incoming damage.

3) Inserting too much of a "bonus" for good performances on the losing side could lead to a situation where it's beneficial to lose the match 14-15 to get a better score.
http://hilbertguide.com

Last edited by mancom; 09-25-2013 at 11:03 AM.
Commander
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 486
# 85
09-25-2013, 10:51 AM
Yeah its very clear that rating goes up significantly to like 5k+ when pugstomping whereas good matches will make ur rating a bit lower while you still did equally good, just your opposition is better.
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 485
# 86
09-25-2013, 12:32 PM
Look I am not sure if this has been said before, but I do not qualify for the Leaderboards, as I am not on Hilbert's Friends list. In fact, he has me on ignore, and routinely tries to taunt me with that fact. Do not know why I should care, but the point I am going for, if it is not obvious enough, is that a list derived by one persons rules, and maintained by one person who is not associated with the development process. The list is in my opinion worthless. As there are some players who are surprisingly good that never really care for the ques. So I personally find the Leaderboard laughable at best. Not due to the fact that I do not appear on it, but due to the fact that his friends are more likely to achieve higher ranks due to his relationship with them.

Just an observation.
Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 434
# 87
09-25-2013, 01:27 PM
I'm not on his friend list and most of my matches aren't counted either.

I'm not going to claim that I know how it all works but it's a good solid effort. My understanding was that the leader board needs more data sets. Perhaps reading more or asking questions about what you can do to contribute to the board would be a more meaningful use of time.
__________________________________________
Foundry: Yet Another Borg Mission
It's terrible but easy, and these Borg are way cooler than the mess STO and Voyager left us.
May not actually be "way" cooler or even "slightly" cooler.
Career Officer
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 793
# 88
09-25-2013, 01:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by vegie0 View Post
Look I am not sure if this has been said before, but I do not qualify for the Leaderboards, as I am not on Hilbert's Friends list.
Well, you do show up in the leaderboard: http://hilbertguide.com/leaderboard/?handle=Vegetable0 (if that's your @handle, otherwise I have no idea who you are.)

Being on my friends list has nothing to do with it. But as long as the rating algorithm is not stable and I'm not sufficiently happy with its quality, I see no reason in massively expanding the amount of reporting players. This thing is still very much in testing and a proof-of-concept. There are already some useful applications like the auto-balancing tool that seems to work fairly well when all involved players have a sufficient number of logged matches, but the general list does not yet have the level of meaning that I would like it to have - it tends to give too low scores for long balanced matches. The special Top10s tend to be a more "realistic" thing - and they are much easier to compute since they do not require fusing healing and damage scores into one number.
http://hilbertguide.com
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 171
# 89
09-25-2013, 03:47 PM
Hilbert can u add top 10 utility?

Also how hard wud it be to add player profiles, like win/lose..avg heal ect
Ensign
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 8
# 90
09-25-2013, 04:50 PM
this list is worthless ... most of these people aren't even good at pvp haha ... pvp leaderboard for the short bus club maybe.

and Hilbert is terrible at pvp anyway his guide is for noobs ... nothing to see here ... move on folks
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