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Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,329
# 31
08-14-2013, 07:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomoruofborg View Post
I agree that the double tap is a problem in this game. the solution you set forth makes sense , however there are other things that are a great concern as well such as the Doffs that make them do 30% chance to ignore shields (energy weapons doff) . Pvp in this game is broken because of things like that and premades vs pugs as well. Pvp in this game is almost dead and so are the long waiting Ques.
Indeed, Power Creep, OP Ships/Setups, a complete and total lack of anything remotely resembling balance... PvP is pretty solidly something you do with a total lack of seriousness if you are going to do it.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,535
# 32
08-14-2013, 08:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gibbspt View Post
So basicly almost everyone with a cloak ship is doing double taps stacking BO2 and BO3, and even in the queues this is taking all the fun of the game, a person does not have a chance to defend their selfs against this type of game play, because this players will kill you in 1 second,..
This is taking the fun of pvp, because all you see now is teams that have 2 romulan ships running double tap builds and them 3 healers just tanking for ever while the escorts one shoot the other team and run...
I don't see much of a problem with it. If you are listening carefully for the spool up sound, you can be prepared for an incoming shot.

For groups of cloaked ships doing the same thing at the same time, yes, that's quite annoying. I feel as if the problem lies with the game's current stealth detection - stealth is damned near impossible to detect nowadays without dedicating a whole build towards stealth detection. In most cases, these cloaked ships pose no threat when they can be detected. Problem is, nowadays they are very rarely detected or give the opponents the opportunity to pop an ability.

stardestroyer001, Admiral, Explorers Fury PvE/PvP Fleet | Retired PvP Player
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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 145
# 33
08-14-2013, 08:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mustafatennick View Post
This is one of the many many things that have made pvp in this game unplayable for the masses
adapt

THIS IS ANOTHER L2P issue

Is it powerful YES

Is it unbeatable NO

With all the shield heals, precise timing is so necessary its not even funny.
To be successful this is one of the hardest ships to play.
What this ship can do others cant is ANYONE is vulnerable to a well played BO stacked


Basic escapes
Jam 1 sec
RSP 1 sec
SJ
AMS

NUMBER 1 JUST LISTEN!!!!!

Most player that double tap don't even know how to stealth in silent they just charge and fire. Basic ears can hear a pre-buff. Only experience players stealth in and if opposing ship has any speed buffs its a no go.

This is not a I win like other builds (plasma, drains, so on), its gorilla tactic and players with no patient fail hard with this build.

A lot of players don't relies that they have been stocked for 3-5 min by a player timing a window that could be as little as 2sec depending on players and if they are using macros/binds.



+ the ship to counter alpha boats = Speedscort

IN STO NOTHING OP BECAUSE EVERYTHING IS OP if you know how to play

Ps if you hate alpha boats, just become a zombie
and
To the people saying sto lost money because of balance that's BS, I bet you they made sick money because people have to spend lots of $$ to make these sick builds.

They lost money due to NO NEW MAPS or Open PVP zone
They lost money because they could'nt give us anything in 3yr
They lost 1/2 of the pvp community before S4
They lost any returning PVP'r with LOR lack of content for PVP
They lost respect for lack of knowledge/post of there own games powers
Just throw us a bone here PWE/cryptic R.I.P.....
One huge opens Space pvp zone, it cant be that hard.......
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Last edited by paradise1killer; 08-14-2013 at 09:44 PM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 597
# 34
08-21-2013, 01:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by webdeath View Post
Am I the only one who finds it funny that he didn't mention the Aux to Bat users who can Double tap BO 3 easier then that?

While Cloaked.. Prep Bo 3.. Pop 2 Aux to Bats.. Buff (EPTW, APA, Tac Fleet etc..) Decloak, Fire, Activate Bo 3 + Weapon Bat, fire.

(This is a similar Procedure I learned how to do with Torp Spread 3 + Plasma Torps)
Interesting concept, but you Aux bat is only used to reduce BO3 and not DEM or even APO which is what you need also. 90 secs vs 1min is a big difference to being in the game than floating around waiting, which is the main weakness for this Vape builds, absolutely not team friendly.
Now found frequenting MWO short term and then Star Citizen long term. Raged Quit PVP long ago
- Gohan (House of Beautiful /Sad Pandas)
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,400
# 35
08-21-2013, 01:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by g0h4n4 View Post
which is the main weakness for this Vape builds, absolutely not team friendly.
This is true.

They aren't as team friendly as a full on escort build, they have other weaknesses as well but most players haven't found the ways to take advantage of that yet.

Lt. Commander
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 122
# 36
08-21-2013, 01:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by g0h4n4 View Post
Interesting concept, but you Aux bat is only used to reduce BO3 and not DEM or even APO which is what you need also. 90 secs vs 1min is a big difference to being in the game than floating around waiting, which is the main weakness for this Vape builds, absolutely not team friendly.
This is incorrect.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 597
# 37
08-21-2013, 01:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by chlamidiot View Post
This is incorrect.
May I bring your attention to the very good A2B forum post Here

The reduction in BO time is only applied to abilities on cooldown

However if he applied the Aux2Bat after his buffs, that would be fine for the next cycle of alpha, but his cloak effectiveness is lowered significantly with an aux of 5.

Any takers on this concept and it's weakness?
Now found frequenting MWO short term and then Star Citizen long term. Raged Quit PVP long ago
- Gohan (House of Beautiful /Sad Pandas)

Last edited by g0h4n4; 08-21-2013 at 01:50 PM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,400
# 38
08-21-2013, 01:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by chlamidiot View Post
This is incorrect.
Quote:
Originally Posted by g0h4n4 View Post
May I bring your attention to the very good A2B forum post Here

He's got you there...chlamidiot...that is certainly a great post on A2B.

Too bad you haven't written anything of that caliber.



Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 597
# 39
08-21-2013, 01:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ussultimatum View Post
This is true.

They aren't as team friendly as a full on escort build, they have other weaknesses as well but most players haven't found the ways to take advantage of that yet.
In addition to testing, one Vape build versus a Fully pro built SCI ship (Moving and using it's abilities in real match, none of that sit still and let me vape you stuff), does not kill it in 2 secs, it usually takes about 2/3rds of it's hull, but with 2 Vape builds, no chance really.

It doesn't have many critical weaknesses tbh, but they sure can run lol, met MT once in Kerrat using this build and he sure was fast after alpha. Took alot of timing and speed to catch him after alpha to kill him.

Well once they have alphaed they can use a singularity jump/ evasive to get away. TB doesn't work on this and you need to be fast yourself to catch them to use TB After they run.

Weaknesses:



Not team friendly due to their long Cd's, an aux to bat may negate this at the cost of 3 DOffs slots which is imo not worth it.

Sensor may help but not always as they get away quick.

Obviously poor hull and they run with low shields and shield power

Did I mention Not team friendly

This build relies heavily on disabled opponents as BO misses sooo much on moving targets

It obviously takes some skill to pull kills off with this niche build. I was testing this build all day again to see it's weaknessness and strengths for the up and coming tourney and it really is OP. Crits of 100k is possible and even worse, if you have another Vape build on your team the enemy is due for some hurtin and vapage.

Any n00b can put this build on but it takes an experiance person/team to time it right and be successful.

I am not agreeing this is what it should be, but unfortunately it's the FOTM and we have to adapt as always and find ways to counter or in this case if you can't beat em join em.
Now found frequenting MWO short term and then Star Citizen long term. Raged Quit PVP long ago
- Gohan (House of Beautiful /Sad Pandas)

Last edited by g0h4n4; 08-21-2013 at 02:09 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,497
# 40
08-21-2013, 02:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by g0h4n4 View Post
May I bring your attention to the very good A2B forum post Here

The reduction in BO time is only applied to abilities on cooldown

However if he applied the Aux2Bat after his buffs, that would be fine for the next cycle of alpha, but his cloak effectiveness is lowered significantly with an aux of 5.

Any takers on this concept and it's weakness?
If you continue to follow the cycle on they'll hit another aux2batt or more depending on the buff you're trying to recharge. There's no way Dem shouldn't be on its shared cooldown. APO should as well if a player manages their cycles well.

A single aux2batt build would be trickier, but that's just a matter of prebuffing long duration abilities like eptw earlier in the cycle. If it's a double tap build you don't expect a long fight anyway, one way or the other.

Regarding the aux there are different options:

1. Follow aux2batt w/EPtA
2. use a low aux preset than go to a high aux/max weapon power preset
3. use aux battery
4. pick your battles, so to speak, so the time you're @ 5 aux is short and sci ships et al that would spot you are distracted.
5. Use a Tvaro and JS the target (this helps maintain tb and prevents them from proc'ing you w/a placate rep ability before you get an alpha off since tb's don't do much damage). Tvaro would also alllow you to have a psw.
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