Go Back   Star Trek Online > Feedback > PvP Gameplay
Login

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,400
# 51
08-21-2013, 03:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by adjudicatorhawk View Post
Yeah, I'm not a fan of this mechanic - it's way too much burst damage in a short window. I'll probably take a look at this soon.

Will you also be looking at corresponding mechanics such as all of the mitigation power creep that has made all but spike damage easy to shrug off in coordinated team play?

Keep in mind we're talking about an environment that, using traditional escort loadouts, can literally require you to fire off 3 Subnucleonic beams on a single target in a short space of time or they simply will not die.

The past year has seen a stream of survivability improvements that have basically 0 downsides.

Omega Rep T4 shield regen passive, Romulan Rep Placate or "heal when you get crit", Elite Fleet shields with massive resistance through adapt stacking.

We now even have engineering consoles with literally no downsides, all of the turn rate you want +resistance on the side OR all of the resistance you want, with a solid turn rate boost.

Either way there is more resistance to be had.


Of course no one finds it fun to die in 5s, but no one finds it fun to beat their heads against a target that won't die either.


Do you think it's realistic to need to kill a target in basically a 5s to 10s window? If it wasn't a lot of players would love to go back to their consistent, easier to fly, easier to build 4 DHC ships.



So I'm fine if you want to tone down spike, and bring up attrition damage to compensate, as well as go and review the massive survivability inflation that has run rampant - but please keep in mind the puzzle is a lot bigger than this thread makes it out to be.

Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 597
# 52
08-21-2013, 03:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by chlamidiot View Post
Yeah too bad that guy got perma-banned and will never, ever, be heard from again.


Or they'll come here and tell you exactly how they do it, down the second.
I am surprised dontdrunkimshoot hasn't done one or rather I haven't read all 51 pages of his threads, but he has one tavro build albeit cannon setup.

I find people will not give up their builds easily, you might hear bit here and there from different people giving opinions and you could put them together to make a basic build. But if you have been playing long enough, you could just about work it out with what's out there, doffs and looking at Opvp channel.

I unfortunately am one of those people, we don't want newbies going around with optimised vape builds do we, but what you have and others have discussed, people could go away and get a decent build for one and improve on it. At the end of the day we weren't given these builds on a silver plate.

We tested them at great length, failed with them and perfected them. My build may not be the same as MT's or Emojoe/Minimax but it's something that suits my play and maximises the kill to fail ratio. You will find alot of top fleets won't give up their builds and so rightly so. You don't want others seeing what you have taken many hours to do and use it or find weaknesses in.

However what i will say about your build is that it isn't a true double tap build and it will not be as effective as there is too much of a delay between your two BO. The key to double tap is to kill them in as quick a time as possible. To give them a chance to survive is akin to not having a vape build but rather a mercy build

however in normal day to day life I use a fleet ha feh with a 4dhc setup with no BS and no cheese. I love it and it has served me well so far, even in Premades with Double tappers.
Now found frequenting MWO short term and then Star Citizen long term. Raged Quit PVP long ago
- Gohan (House of Beautiful /Sad Pandas)

Last edited by g0h4n4; 08-21-2013 at 04:09 PM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 597
# 53
08-21-2013, 03:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ussultimatum View Post
Will you also be looking at corresponding mechanics such as all of the mitigation power creep that has made all but spike damage easy to shrug off in coordinated team play?

Keep in mind we're talking about an environment that, using traditional escort loadouts, can literally require you to fire off 3 Subnucleonic beams on a single target in a short space of time or they simply will not die.

The past year has seen a stream of survivability improvements that have basically 0 downsides.

Omega Rep T4 shield regen passive, Romulan Rep Placate or "heal when you get crit", Elite Fleet shields with massive resistance through adapt stacking.

We now even have engineering consoles with literally no downsides, all of the turn rate you want +resistance on the side OR all of the resistance you want, with a solid turn rate boost.

Either way there is more resistance to be had.


Of course no one finds it fun to die in 5s, but no one finds it fun to beat their heads against a target that won't die either.


Do you think it's realistic to need to kill a target in basically a 5s to 10s window? If it wasn't a lot of players would love to go back to their consistent, easier to fly, easier to build 4 DHC ships.



So I'm fine if you want to tone down spike, and bring up attrition damage to compensate, as well as go and review the massive survivability inflation that has run rampant - but please keep in mind the puzzle is a lot bigger than this thread makes it out to be.
Agreed, it's not so simple than to nerf damage, you have to understand why the players have evolved to use double tap builds and thereby getting both sides of the story.

It's not easy to balance one thing as it might disrupt another element of the game. Lets hope the Devs get it right
Now found frequenting MWO short term and then Star Citizen long term. Raged Quit PVP long ago
- Gohan (House of Beautiful /Sad Pandas)
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 4,260
# 54
08-21-2013, 03:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mancom View Post
The core problem is that the inflation in shield resists due to the elite fleet shields has made this instakill approach pretty much the only thing other than multi-SNBing that still works to actually score a point against a somewhat coordinated opponent.
Exactly... as much as I am not a fan of the double tap. (yes I have had ships that double tapped going back to the patch after the buggy weapon offline was removed).... it is sort of needed right now.

Frankly you see this build so often right now because... it is darn near impossible to kill most people with out it.

An engi in anything... and the majority of half decent sci and tac players are next to unkillable with out massive spike.

I am in favor of adding BACK a wepaons offline for a few seconds after an overload to prevent double tapping... and to add some cost to a skill that can honestly hit for 100k+ on its own. (the -50 power isn't enough anymore... not with all the + power doffs and items we have).

What I would honestly suggest... is an in depth look at both spike and the reasons why it is seen as the only option right now.

Myself....

I would add a 5s weapon complete energy wepaon offline to overload and remove the -50 weapon power drain.

I would then also ADD dimminishing returns to shield resists. Right now its a bit stupid that 90% of the people playing the game have 60+% shield resistance at ALL times.

(PS... this is also why you see so many transphasic bombers... and why you never see an escort with torpedos... trying to fight shields is stupid.)

If anything.... to achieve real balance...

Add diminishing returns to Shields... and REMOVE it from Hull resistance.
Dignity and an empty sack is worth the sack.

Last edited by antoniosalieri; 08-21-2013 at 03:45 PM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 987
# 55
08-21-2013, 04:12 PM
Yes, posting because a dev posted, but I read most of the whole thread and had a question. Which is the BO doff and what does it do?
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 585
# 56
08-21-2013, 04:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by atatassault View Post
Yes, posting because a dev posted, but I read most of the whole thread and had a question. Which is the BO doff and what does it do?
AFAIK, there's a couple. One, Marion, gives Directed Energy Modulation an 8 second drain immunity, allowing you to fire multiple back-to-back Beam Overloads with no power loss. The other gives FAW and Beam Overload a much higher shield penetration.
If you feel Keel'el's effect is well designed, please, for your own safety, be very careful around shallow pools of water.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 597
# 57
08-21-2013, 04:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by thegrimcorsair View Post
AFAIK, there's a couple. One, Marion, gives Directed Energy Modulation an 8 second drain immunity, allowing you to fire multiple back-to-back Beam Overloads with no power loss. The other gives FAW and Beam Overload a much higher shield penetration.
Apart from Marion, there's the BO Doff that gives 35% chance on activating BO for 30% of shield penetration
Now found frequenting MWO short term and then Star Citizen long term. Raged Quit PVP long ago
- Gohan (House of Beautiful /Sad Pandas)
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 987
# 58
08-21-2013, 04:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by g0h4n4 View Post
Apart from Marion, there's the BO Doff that gives 35% chance on activating BO for 30% of shield penetration
Do you know the name and or specialty of that one? It doesn't seem to be listed on STO Wiki.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,289
# 59
08-21-2013, 04:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by antoniosalieri View Post
and why you never see an escort with torpedos... trying to fight shields is stupid.)

If anything.... to achieve real balance...

Add diminishing returns to Shields... and REMOVE it from Hull resistance.
Well I normally only use a torp on a bop to fire it with BO, but have done it on my fleet defiant recently to, also only used with BO. Gone are the 3 DHC 1 torp escort builds that used to be somewhat common back before season 6 I think.

I think spike damage from BO should be toned down a little, but not to shields, just to hull. Your idea of lower shield resistance and increasing hull resistance might encourage that. BO and energy weapons in general should mainly be used to rip away facing for torps to destroy hull. It would be nice to see more escorts able to use torpedos again. Also torps need to scale better so a sliver left on a shield facing doesn't stop most of the torps damage going to hull like it does now.

This probably needs its own thread, I have been thinking about how bad it is for pvp to be skewed in favor of shield resists vs hull resists in general for some time now, and this BO double tap issue is highlighting it.
Tala -KDF Tac- House of Beautiful Orions
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,289
# 60
08-21-2013, 04:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by atatassault View Post
Do you know the name and or specialty of that one? It doesn't seem to be listed on STO Wiki.
energy weapons officer
Tala -KDF Tac- House of Beautiful Orions
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 03:25 PM.