Lieutenant
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 86
Not sure exactly where to put this, so I think I'll post it here.

And yes, I know, of all the things to say about this Lockbox and balance...
But seriously, I find the Elachi Torpedo rather lacking. In terms of a torpedo which is designed to be disabling, I think it's outperformed by tricobalts, and that shouldn't be the case.

Comparing the two, the Elachi Torp has a 10.5s cooldown, and a 10% chance for a base 2s disable. Tricobalts, on the other hand, have a 30.5s cooldown, and a 100% chance for a base 1.7s disable.

Now consider the following scenarios where you continuously fire either torp at a target for, say, 1281s (a little over 20 mins). Say the target is a transwarp gate, so it does not resist your attacks, and your torps always hit.

After 1281s, the tricobalt fired 42 times, the Elachi fired 122 times.

The trico procs a 1.7s disable on every hit, so the gateway is disabled for a total of 42 * 1.7 = 71.4 seconds (a little over a minute, and about 5% of the total combat time).

The Elachi, on the other hand, only procs 10% of the time, so on average it procced 12 times. Thus it disables the gateway for a total of 12 * 2 = 24 seconds (half a minute, a tiny 2% of the total combat time).

So far I've ignored the case where the torps are upgraded by TS or HY. I haven't completely looked at the TS case, but reading off of my tooltips (not the base numbers mind you), I get this: an Elachi HY gives 20K damage and a guaranteed 3s disable. A tricobalt HY gives about 29k damage and a guaranteed disable anywhere between 3s - 9s (average 6s, twice what the Elachi does).

Looking at these numbers, the stock tricobalt seems to be outperforming the Elachi torp a great deal. Given the cost of investment of the Elachi torp, the opposite should be true; the Elachi should be the superior disabling torpedo.

What I was considering was something like this: for the base Elachi torpedo, increase the proc chance to 33% (this is in line with the stock Chroniton proc chance) and the base disable up to 2.3s. So in the above scenario, the torpedo would have procced about 40 times, disabling the target for a total of 40 * 2.3 = 92s (compared to the tricobalt's 71.4s).

For the Torpedo Spread variant, I'm guessing it should be a guaranteed disable, but only for a reduced time, about 1.5s (similar to how a Chroniton behaves). For HY torps, perhaps the disable should be an average 7ish seconds, + or - 7ish seconds (so varying randomly between 1s and 15s).

Of couse, in the name of balance, I'd say (if it's not true already) that the Elachi disable should be resisted by Subsyst. Repair, cleansed by Engineering team, etc. Also, it probably also shouldn't be upgraded by the Nadeon Detonator console (as of now it does, and the disables stack).

Feel free to dispute me if my numbers are off or you disagree. Yes I know, I ignored PW doffs, and that a true torp boat could churn out more Elachi torps. But the same is true of tricobalts, AND you could do double disable duty with 1 fore 1 back, etc.
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 4,965
# 2
08-16-2013, 02:28 PM
I run a torp boat, a damn good one. Up to 19k+ average dps on full runs of stfs (non t'varo as well). That said, I run 3 torps up front and the rest are rom plasmas for the disruptor proc. Rom plasmas are disrupter damage so I was hugely interested in the 2p set.

The canon looked bad compared to my dual heavies and I knew the torp would be bad as I am using all plasma based torps.

so now I see that it both canon and torp are weak and the 2p isn't worth the effort.

I wasn't a big fan of the console either but I could squeeze it in to satisfy the 2p. I'm rather disappointed.

Oh, and the fact the canon doesn't have a disrupter proc annoys the crap outta me.
I thank you man, saved me a great deal of lobi
Lieutenant
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 86
# 3
08-16-2013, 02:36 PM
Hmm, well the console itself is rather perfect for my build, but I guess that's just me. So it seems both Elachi weapons need a buff?
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 4,965
# 4
08-16-2013, 03:07 PM
Well, if you use single canons, it is an improvement but it is nothing compared to a dual heavy, dual or beam bank.

The crit severity is always nice but integrity and subspace(i think it was subspace) boosts are not not wanted or needed. To use the console for the 2p is a great idea, to use the console just for the console is I'll advised.

I can see the canon and console being because 8% to disrupter damage may be worth it if every weapon firing is disrupter

Taking the damage or dps of the canon and the damage or dps of a dual heavy canon, finding out the difference and then apply 8% to all weapons and find out if a which is the bigger number...

The calculation needs to be assumed all canons fired at 125 energy...and that the 8% acts like other buffs that do similar things(and I believe virusdancer found out the energy buffs from consoles acts like a console, 8% of base damage)

I think the dhc will out perform the 8% 2p

Either way, I'm with ya on your suggestion for the torp but the canon needs a bit of a boost too
Lieutenant
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 86
# 5
08-16-2013, 04:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dahminus View Post
The crit severity is always nice but integrity and subspace(i think it was subspace) boosts are not not wanted or needed. To use the console for the 2p is a great idea, to use the console just for the console is I'll advised.
Eh, it really depends. Subspace Decompiler and Structural Integrity just happen to fit my build's needs exactly, but you obviously don't need those. On the other hand, you need the 2pc disruptor boost, but not the console itself. What works for one may not work for another.
Republic Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,135
# 6
08-17-2013, 12:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dahminus View Post
I run a torp boat, a damn good one. Up to 19k+ average dps on full runs of stfs (non t'varo as well). That said, I run 3 torps up front and the rest are rom plasmas for the disruptor proc. Rom plasmas are disrupter damage so I was hugely interested in the 2p set.

The canon looked bad compared to my dual heavies and I knew the torp would be bad as I am using all plasma based torps.

so now I see that it both canon and torp are weak and the 2p isn't worth the effort.

I wasn't a big fan of the console either but I could squeeze it in to satisfy the 2p. I'm rather disappointed.

Oh, and the fact the canon doesn't have a disrupter proc annoys the crap outta me.
I thank you man, saved me a great deal of lobi
Umm I hate to burst your bubble but Romulan Plasma's do Plasma damage...
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 4,965
# 7
08-17-2013, 12:53 PM
oversight on my part, i have all ambiplasma envelopes anyway so that changes nothing for me
Republic Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,135
# 8
08-19-2013, 06:22 PM
Question about the Elachi torp...is it targetable like Tricobalts or is it like most standard torpedos?
Lieutenant
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 86
# 9
08-19-2013, 10:34 PM
It's similar to plasmas in that regard; standard and TS are not targetable, where HY ones are.
Survivor of Remus
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 336
# 10
08-20-2013, 01:41 AM
Isn't the proc rate of the HY 100% though?

(related question, what speed does the HY torp travel?).
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